Linux-Misc Digest #873, Volume #24 Tue, 20 Jun 00 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Doesn't Print until Window closes (Steve)
Re: Choice of Linux / Unix as second OS (Rod Smith)
/boot - necessary as separate FS? (Christoph Kukulies)
Re: stability of culture of helpfulness (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Toshiba 2180CDT Modem (robert vasquez)
Re: Very weird Netscape problem (Lien-Fei Alex Chu)
Re: how to start X windows under RH linux? (Mark)
Re: Stability of the Culture of Helpfulness (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
kfm ftp - username/password (Rick)
Re: named? ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: /boot - necessary as separate FS? ("David ..")
Re: Linux freeze when running at 500 Mhz (brian moore)
Re: How Return to prompt login? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows (John Hasler)
Re: LILO brain-teaser - can you solve it?: Added new HD, hdb7 is now hdc7, need
help restoring LILO ("Gregg Giles")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Doesn't Print until Window closes
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:59:49 GMT
I am trying to setup an xterm window that allows me to print while
telneting into a system and running Pine. I start the xterm window
with "xterm -tn vt320" to allow it to accept "Attached-to-Ansi" codes.
I go into Pine and read my e-mail. I press "%" to print it and after
telling it yes to print with "Attached-to-Ansi" it acts like it
printed. Howevert, nothing comes out on the printer until I exit Pine,
Exit Tewlnet, and close the Xterm window. Then it prints the e-mail I
had sent it earlier. Does anyone have any idea why this is not working?
Thanks,
Steve
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Choice of Linux / Unix as second OS
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:13:14 GMT
[Posted and mailed]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I run Win98 on my home machine for general tasks like email, browsing,
> games, and multimedia, but at school (I'm a physics grad student), I spend
> a great deal of time on unix accounts. I know that most computer clusters
> at university and gov't labs (in fact most of the physics community) run
> unix clusters or Linux boxes, so I'd like to set up something similar at
> home in order to become more familiar with my future work environment.
>
> What suggestions do you have on choosing my second OS?
If you're asking what Linux distribution to get, you may want to check
my web page on the subject:
http://www.rodsbooks.com/distribs/
If you're trying to decide between Linux and some other Unix-like OS,
then it really depends on your exact needs and requirements. To just get
a general "feel" for Linux/Unix, just about anything will do. If you
need to run specific binary-only programs, though, that should be your
guiding factor.
> [note: if it helps, I edit code and kumacs with emacs, I use PAW for
> graphical analysis, and I'd like to install Mathematica on my home machine]
Aside from Mathematica and Emacs, I'm afraid I've not heard of any of
these. I don't know offhand if Mathematica is available for Linux,
although Emacs certainly is. Especially if the others are commercial or
binary-only programs, you should check to see if they're available for
Linux or any other potential OS.
--
Rod Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux networking & multi-OS configuration
------------------------------
From: Christoph Kukulies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: /boot - necessary as separate FS?
Date: 20 Jun 2000 14:24:55 GMT
Assuming you have a 1.2 GB disk (small these days, but anyway)
Would it be OK to just create one 1000M / and a 200M swap
without creating an extra 16M /boot partition (REdhat 6.1 I'm
talking about).
--
Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: stability of culture of helpfulness
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:25:48 -0500
Oliver Baker wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a delayed crosspost that I first made to alt.os.linux. I've had
> one helpful reply so far, but it would be still more help to hear a
> couple more.
>
> Although I'm neither business savvy nor computer savvy, I'm writing an
> article for a trade magazine on the subject of a big company that has
> chosen Linux for its very big PC cluster. The business people at this
> company consider Linux a great way to save money on computer support
> costs--not just because they believe it to be more trouble-free, but
> because they feel they can just log onto the net and get expert free
> help any time, thus eliminating the need for most of their support
> staff.
>
> I have a couple questions:
>
> 1)Does this make sense--that they could reduce their support staff? (and
> if so, by how much? if anybody cares to make an estimate.)
I do feel that you need more support staff to keep Windows running
properly on the same number of machines as Linux or other Unices. I
know that at a previous business I worked at it required about four
people to keep track of approximately 75 machines. This was a full time
occupation for these four people. All of the machines ran Windows. At
my current position, I keep track of 20 machines all running Linux.
About two hours a week are spent actually working on upkeep. The rest
of the time I am tuning the servers (programs on the servers actually)
and developing the company web site. We saved a lot on support staff
already by not running Windows. The machines stay in the same condition
as the day you set them up (since users can't fiddle with the software
loaded on them). When updates are necissary you can just do it through
a script (I use a script from cron that automatically updates all
machines at midnight) and you don't have to go and sit at each machine
for the time it takes to load new or updated software. This is a huge
time saver. Even with only 20 workstations, it takes two minutes to
update my script to load up new software, it would take about 5 minutes
to sit at each machine 5x20 = 1 hour and 40 minutes. Not a huge amount
of time, but still an hour and thirty eight minutes that I can use to do
something else. Also, security is much easier to keep track of. Users
can sit at any machine on the network and have exactly the same desktop
with exactly the same files (through NFS mounted home directories) and
exactly the same programs. This helps by not confusing the users when
they need to move, and you don't need to retrain them for each different
load they encounter (as all are the same).
My guess as to how much support staff could be reduced would be
approximately one quarter of the staff would be needed past the initial
set up. Of course, once the users were used to the new system, even
this one-quarter of the staff would be able to spend some time working
on other things. That's the nice thing with Linux, you can set it up
and forget about the software. Your support is either hardware, or user
support. That should be the goal of every IT/IS department. Software
support will always be a small amount of your time (especially with
updates for security and such) but you can focus more of your time on
user support. This makes your network, and your workers more efficient.
>
> 2) Is this culture of on-line helpfulness impervious to a)increasing
> numbers of Linux users, b)increasing numbers of queries from Linux users
> at companies who--it might be perceived--could afford to hire people to
> generate in-house the answers they are instead getting through the
> kindness of strangers.
The first thing to do is make sure you have at least a one person on the
support staff that understand Linux very well. This is extremely
important to finding good information on Linux. When I say understand
Linux, I really mean someone that knows how to find the right answers
when they are needed. My merit is not necissarily in knowing Linux
inside and out (although I think I do a pretty good job), but I know how
to find things out when I need to. You need one person on staff that
can go to the web/newsgroups/chatrooms and ask the right questions to
the right people. You can't just pick up someone off the street, call
them a support person and expect them to actually be able to do the
support just by inquiring in on-line forums. But, with one person to
help steer the rest of the staff in the right direction on finding
things (maybe more than one if the staff is large enough) they can
quickly show people how to find answers themselves.
One of the problems, as your question brings up, is that there are a lot
of people jumping into Linux at the moment that don't really know it
that well. Sometimes in thier eagerness to promote Linux, they give out
misinformation. This isn't really always thier fault. Someone says it
once, they see it and repeat it until they are either corrected, or they
find out the information is wrong. Of course, this is where a lot of
problems arise. The best place to find answers is to go through online
documentation. This, usually, can't be tainted. But, I guess I usually
head for a book or the /usr/doc directory to find answers now. Having a
huge O'Reilly library doesn't hurt either. I probably have about a
hundred O'Reilly books, and about 20 other books on Linux and other Open
Source software. But if you find the right person to help the rest of
the staff learn Linux, they will probably already have this asset, or
know how to find someone that does. I know a few of my Linux using
friends spend a lot of time reading my books for answers. I was lucky
enough to get into Linux before it was "the in thing" and have collected
quite a bit of documentation. You will usually find that Linux
enthusiasts gather somewhere in your area to share information. While
this isn't considered proper to most businesses (as they are usually
just full of geeks spouting forth great amounts of knowledge in a joking
and often self effacing manner), they are huge resources. Find a LUG
(Linux User Group) and get someone that is respected from the group to
talk to you, and they can usually point you in the right direction to
get help on any subject. That's how it was done years ago, and is still
the best overall way to learn Linux. People help eachother out.
That said, with the way Linux is growing, there are some bad sources of
information. Like I said before, just be carefull to have someone that
knows Linux well, and you will probably have a good start. That is the
best way to run any business. Unfortunately, I am also aware that to
save money a lot of businesses will hire people that don't know the
system extremely well (this is especially true of non-tech companies
when hiring technical staff). But, that's another subject.
>
> So far, one person has said it doesn't matter what the affliation is of
> who is asking (though their perceived attitude does).
>
> I'd be grateful for any comments.
>
> - Oliver Baker
Good luck on the article.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: robert vasquez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Toshiba 2180CDT Modem
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:30:10 GMT
The built-in 56K modem worked great under minicom, I dialed in to a BBS and
everything was fine. I rebooted, went to Windows for a while, then I went
back to Mandrake 7.1 to try out ppp. When I tried to dial in, the modem was
'busy' and minicom wouldn't work either! It's been like that ever since,
working in Windows but not working under Linux...Ideas?
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: Lien-Fei Alex Chu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Very weird Netscape problem
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:31:34 -0400
Mike wrote:
<snip>
> >What version of netscape are you running?
>
> 4.51
>
> >Have you tried doing a clean reinstall of netscape?
>
> no, not yet. What's the latest version, do you know?
There is Netscape 6 Preview Release 1
Or, you can just use 4.73
Alex.
--
============================================
The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
http://www.seti.org/
Registered with the Linux Counter. ID# 175126
http://counter.li.org/index.html
------------------------------
From: Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: how to start X windows under RH linux?
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:32:18 GMT
As a newbie you probably would rather use the graphical login as well.
But since you installed the server version I assume you intend to use
the machine _as_ a server of some sort. If so then you are better off
leaving it in text mode.
In any event, the easiest way is to edit the /etc/inittab file to
default boot into graphical mode. To do this edit the file and change
the following line replacing the 3 to a 5.
id:3:initdefault:
id:5:initdefault:
3 boots into text mode, 5 into graphical mode.
Of course, you could always issue the command startx on a command line,
with attention to path and permissions...
Mark
In article <8ine6j$fqo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Lu Bingwen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am a Linux newbie. I just installed RedHat Linux 6.2 server version.
> However, I have no idea how to start X windows (Gnome) after I login.
Any
> suggestion? Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks a lot a lot.
>
> ben
>
>
--
Please reply to this newsgroup as my Deja mail
is used as a spam catcher only!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Stability of the Culture of Helpfulness
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:40:30 -0500
pac4854 wrote:
>
> This is bound to be as successful as fielding a new W2K network,
> firing all your MCSEs, and just giving the end users the URL for
> the MS knowledge base.
>
> I hope this little endeavor goes tits up, and the morons in
> charge end up homeless and unemployable.
>
> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
The only way I see this happening is if they are actually clueless
enough to get rid of anybody with a clue in the support staff. Also, as
previous posters have said, they still need someone that actually knows
the system in order to keep it running. If they were stupid enough to
actually think they could get by without having anyone know anything,
then yeah, I agree with you whole heartedly. But considering the number
of companies running with clueless idiots in charge of the
computer/network support, they might not be as dead in the water as you
would think. Food for thought.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: kfm ftp - username/password
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:12:01 -0400
Is it possible to pass a username and password to kfm for a
"non-anonymous" ftp login ?
--
Rick
To reply by email remove the obvious from my address.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: named?
Date: 20 Jun 2000 14:53:36 GMT
Guardian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On 19 Jun 2000 11:51:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: (Koos Pol) wrote:
:>On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 04:51:51 -0400, Guardian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>| # I need to direct named output to a log file not /var/log/messages
:>| # dis work?
:>|
:>| if [ -f /var/log/named.log ] ; then
:>| /usr/sbin/named > /var/log/named.log 2>&1
:>| else
:>| touch /var/log/named.log && /usr/sbin/named > \
:>| /var/log/named.log 2>&1
:>| fi
:>|
:>|
:>| # Guardian
:>
:>Why don't you read the manpages? What do expect from us ?
: There's one born everyday, Amsterdam is not exception.
: Post a lame ass reply and you get flamed college boy.
: The problem is what is wrong with the script?
: I take it you don't know.
I take it he does, since there is nothing wrong with the script and
everything wrong with the script authors attempted use of named. Like
Koos says, "read the manpage".
Peter
------------------------------
From: "David .." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: /boot - necessary as separate FS?
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:02:25 -0500
Christoph Kukulies wrote:
>
> Assuming you have a 1.2 GB disk (small these days, but anyway)
> Would it be OK to just create one 1000M / and a 200M swap
> without creating an extra 16M /boot partition (REdhat 6.1 I'm
> talking about).
Yes I have a dual boot system on an 8.1 GB drive and have no /boot
partition.
The /boot partition isn't really needed unless you are trying to install
above the 1024th cylinder, in which case the /boot partition is placed
below the 1024 cylinder. It will place a /boot directory in / if you
don't dedicate a partition for /boot.
--
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: Linux freeze when running at 500 Mhz
Date: 20 Jun 2000 15:06:41 GMT
On 20 Jun 2000 12:15:32 +0200,
Stefan Soos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Colin Smith) writes:
>
> > Anybody know how much punishment the AMD CPU can take before it's toast?
> > It seems happy at the moment. Is there any Linux software which can
> > monitor the CPU temperature? Will Linux halt the CPU when idle or is
> > additional software needed?
>
> I would like to know it, too. I'm somewhat feared, because under windows
> the temperature climbs up to nearly 60�C.
> There's a package called lm_sensors (sorry I don't know the url).
> If your chipset is supported, you can monitor cpu temperatures, fan speed
> etc. with it.
> I think the cpu is halted when idle. This would explain the temperature
> difference between linux and windows.
Yes, it does. See arch/i386/kernel/process.c
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How Return to prompt login?
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:02:40 GMT
In article <8icmd0$87h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Floyd Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >> Try going to single user mode as you boot up. Hit the CapLock
> > >> or whatever key you normally use just as the "LILO" prompt comes
> > >> up, and it should halt and wait for your input. Type a TAB to
> > >> get a list of available kernels. Assuming you have done the
usual,
> > >> and the default is called "linux", enter "linux single" and hit
> > >> the return key.
> > >
> > >That is my problem now.
> > >Since this machine is a server and I dont know
> > >why it was configured, CapLoc, TAB lef down keys, all simply
> > >being appear " boot
> > > linux
> > > boot
> > > "
> > >then go directly to
> > >"boot
> > > linux loading ........".
> > >
> > >All this happened without allowing me to tape "linux single"
> > >or "linux 3".
> > >
> > >This is my problem now.
> >
> > Hmmmmm....
> >
> > I like the Caps Lock key because it lights up the light on
> > my keyboard and as things proceed I can watch it, and if it
> > goes out I hit the caps lock key again. That means it will
> > be "on" when the "LILO" prompt arrives, and my timing is of
> > not importance even if the wait time at boot is set to a
> > very minimal value. (I don't know though, it may be set
> > completely off on a server.)
> >
> > BTW, I like that "linux 3" idea.
> >
> > If the above doesn't get you the halt to enter a command, its
> > is find a boot disk time! No other way...
> >
> > And from what I've read in your followup posts, it sounds like
> > what you will find is that the default init level statement
> > has been changed to one that should run xdm. Editing it to
> > read whatever multiuser is (5 or 3???) on your system will
> > probably be the fix that works.
> >
> > Floyd
> >
> > --
> > Floyd L. Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> How I can find bare.i image? This maybe the only possible to me,
> in fact "timeout" in lilo.conf seem to be set equal to zero.
> On the Slackware site is possible to create this diskette via network
> for Slack 4.0, 3.9 or less (I'm not
> sure for the version number I have, however my kernel is
> 2.2.4 ?
> Can I create a boot bar.i image from any kernel or distribution as for
> example from Slack 7.0? My experience with in linux is limitted
>
Hello,
I can now boot using two disks boot + root
of made from Slackware 4.0 kernel 2.2.6. But
have the probleme in mounting my /dev/hda1 on /mnt.
I do this : mount -a /dev/hada1 /mnt, is this is true?
Also, vi editor do not work.
Can any one explains this?
Thanks
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:32:17 GMT
Oliver Baker writes:
> As a science journalist, one doesn't always get to write about what one
> knows about or get the time to walk 1000 miles in every relevant persons'
> moccasins. You solicit quotes about what the bottom of their moccasins
> look like, build a story out of those, and hope for the best.
That this is how science journalism is done more often then not is
painfully obvious to anyone who has read a few articles on subjects with
which he is familiar.
> Yes, there's something to be said for not getting in over your head, and
> sometimes you can avoid it.
Yes. You can buy a Linux CD set (or download one if your editor won't
spring for the $39.95). You can then install it and come here with
specific questions.
> My intuition is that I'll squeek by on this one.
In other words, your article will contain the usual howlers and misleading
statements, but nobody who matters will notice.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: "Gregg Giles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: LILO brain-teaser - can you solve it?: Added new HD, hdb7 is now hdc7,
need help restoring LILO
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:08:26 -0700
Yup, that fixed the problem - or at least helped me get to the point where I
could fix the problem. I first switched the Linux drive back to its original
configuration (primary IDE slave, hdb7), booted Linux with the boot disk,
edited /etc/fstab to make the drive hdc7, then switched the drive back to
secondary IDE master / hdc7 and rebooted. Unfortunately modifying LILO
manually failed because it didn't think it would find the drive at 0x82 (I
guess a map or boot.b wasn't getting updated), so I uninstalled lilo and
used the Gnome system configuration util to rewrite LILO by force
(bwa-ha-ha). After that it worked like a champ. Thanks for your help.
Linux is, once again, my friend... :-)
Gregg
"Adrian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Gregg Giles wrote:
> >
> > Hello all -
> >
> Did you change the /etc/fstab file to reflect the new changes in drive
> assignments? I don't see a LILO problem here, just the fact that the
> drives (i.e. /boot) aren't were Linux/LILO expects them to be so they
> can't be mounted correctly, unless I'm missing something here.
>
>
>
>
> --
> - I just tried this on my old Packard Bell 486/66 w/4MB (Hey ...
> - shut-up! I was young, ignorant, and didn't know anything about
> - hardware or quality manufacturers.).
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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