Linux-Misc Digest #128, Volume #25 Fri, 14 Jul 00 00:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Is it possible to resume UPLOAD using FTP? (David Efflandt)
Are there substantially more/less RPMs for RH or SuSE? (Jerome Mrozak)
Nebie question on mounting a dos partition (Mike Misiewicz)
Re: eth1 fails on boot!! (Donald Becker)
Linux Portable Device (Chairman Mao of Technology)
Re: >>>>> Help Needed <<<<< (David Steuber)
Re: Consequences of a new kernel (brian moore)
Re: X protocol vs. XDMCP (Lee Sau Dan)
Stopping apache, (Red Hat) (alan)
Re: Stopping apache, (Red Hat) ("Kevin Vandersloot")
Shared IRQ == X lockup ("David J. Topper")
Re: Nebie question on mounting a dos partition ("Kevin Vandersloot")
Re: Are there substantially more/less RPMs for RH or SuSE? ("Kevin Vandersloot")
wine-starcraft cluster f*** (Tron)
Re: RPM 4.0 -- DB Problem ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Kernel too big (David Steuber)
Re: Is this a good machine for the money? (David Steuber)
Shared IRQ == sound lockup ("David J. Topper")
Re: Why isn't [X]Emacs a word processor? (William W.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: Is it possible to resume UPLOAD using FTP?
Date: 14 Jul 2000 02:10:33 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 13 Jul 2000 14:01:01 GMT, Paul Wickham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi
>
>I know it is possible to resume downloading using reget, but is there
>something similar for uploading (ie PUTing?)
When you upload with ncftp and a file exists, it usually asks if you want
to overwrite, append or skip. Not sure if GUI ftp programs that can
resume downloads do the same. But I did notice that when I tried to copy
some test web directories to my laptop with gftp and some of the files
existed, it did pop up a list and asked me what to do with them, but I
don't remember if append was one of the choices, or if it would have if
the sizes didn't match.
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
------------------------------
From: Jerome Mrozak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Are there substantially more/less RPMs for RH or SuSE?
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:23:09 -0500
I'm choosing between distros and would like to NOT be stuck with a
distro that can't find the "latest and greatest" software, such as Gnome
updates, KDE updates, editors.
Being in the USA, I hear the most about RH and Mandrake. But when all
is counted, what % of RPMs will work on both RH and SuSE, what % for RH
and not SuSE, and what % for SuSE and not RH?
A demanding question, perhaps. And I thank _very_much_ anyone who
chooses to answer it.
Jerome.
--
Jerome Mrozak "Never buy a dog and bark for yourself"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] --"Slippery" Jim DiGriz
(the Stainless Steel Rat)
------------------------------
From: Mike Misiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Nebie question on mounting a dos partition
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:30:04 GMT
Hello,
I have a 13 gig (apx) linux partition and a 500 mb windows partiton. I
would like to mount the windows partition, however I cannot seem todo
this. Mount say that it cannot find "dos" or "vfat" in /etc/fstab
or /etc/mtab. I am not sure If i havethe syntax right, I type
#mount dos
or
#mount vfat
As you may have seen, I am new to linux, and I need to get the partiton
mounted.
Thank you,
Mike
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald Becker)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: eth1 fails on boot!!
Date: 13 Jul 2000 22:48:07 -0400
In article <Ua4b5.226$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Devon Harding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>insmod seems to fail on boot-up.
...
>Here's a few lines from my /var/log/messages:
>
...
>Jul 9 13:36:14 mars insmod: /lib/modules/2.2.14-5.0/net/3c509.o: invalid
>parameter parm_io
Uhmm, don't try to set a module parameter that doesn't exist.
That error will prevent the module from loading.
(The bogus line is likely in /etc/conf.modules)
--
Donald Becker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scyld Computing Corporation http://www.scyld.com
410 Severn Ave. Suite 210 Beowulf Clusters / Linux Installations
Annapolis MD 21403
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chairman Mao of Technology)
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.os.linux
Subject: Linux Portable Device
Date: 14 Jul 2000 02:40:13 GMT
We are in the design stages of an Electronic book, and want to get feed
back from the linux comunity, in effect making the Book a Linux produced
product, the first p[roduct designed by the Linux comunity.
So we initially would like to get comments from people about what they
would like to see ina linux portabloe device, that is a Book reader, but
doubles as a PIM and game console.
It will be initially marketed as a Ebook that can be used for rapid text
input at meetings. We also plan that the unit will have a speech processor
to read the text content of books.
We wouldlike to find people who would also like to develope on this once we
past the prototype, but the Key for development will be small code.
Any way,
Please follow up with what you would concider a perfect portable Linux
based Electronic book.
Post coments here, and also CC to me at, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Regards
to all
------------------------------
Subject: Re: >>>>> Help Needed <<<<<
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:00:07 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
' MINE'S LABELED WITH... Ahem... Mine's labeled with Caps...
The key or the light? ;-)
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
``This case serves as a dire warning to all burglars. Any citizen is
entitled to use reasonable force. A householder in his own home might
not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences''
--- Mr Justice Owen at Tony Martin's murder trial as quoted by
http://www.norfolk-now.co.uk/
The ``From'' address is a valid e-mail address.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hoplite&submit=Look+it+up
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: Consequences of a new kernel
Date: 14 Jul 2000 03:11:37 GMT
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:00:21 GMT,
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow) writes:
>
> ' >Unless you are running Debian.
> '
> ' In which case you can upgrade from libc5 to glibc2.0 in place, no
> ' rebooting, then glibc2.0 to glibc2.1 similarly. And have a working,
> ' running system after each upgrade.
>
> Really? That is a pretty good system. What do you do to get an
> initial Debian release on your computer so that everything upgrades
> from there properly?
Well, my most recent system I used the 'compact' set from potato, which
is two floppies and told it to install the rest via the 'net, which it
did. (That machine is at work and just needed an ip number and gateway
to be assigned and it was happy.)
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: Lee Sau Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.x,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: Re: X protocol vs. XDMCP
Date: 14 Jul 2000 11:25:05 +0800
>>>>> "michael" == michael james obrien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
michael> Hsinko Yu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : Hello all, :
michael> I know that XDMCP is used to communicate with the X
michael> Display Manager (XDM) : running on a host machine. But
michael> after we login successfully and start some : applications
michael> (x clients), what is the protocol between remote 'x
michael> clients' : and local 'x server' ?
michael> It is X. However, you also use the window manager on the
michael> remote machine if you use XDMCP. This is the primary
michael> difference as I understand it.
XDMCP is only responsible for helping a display (usually a running
instance of X server) to find a [possibly remote] host machine to
offer a login window. There after, it is the X protocol that does all
the things. Even the login window (which is just an X client started
by xdm) or the chooser window (in cause of an "indirect" XDMCP
request) is displayed using the X protocol (because it is an X
client). The Window Manager is also using the X protocol to manage
your display.
So, XDMCP is just a protocol for a display to talk to an xdm to
negotiate an X connection and connection parameters. All the GUI
(including the choose and login screen) stuff are handled by making an
X connections (to your X server, normally at TCP port 6000) and
speaking the X protocol.
--
Lee Sau Dan ���u��(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csis.hku.hk/~sdlee |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
From: alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Stopping apache, (Red Hat)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:30:10 GMT
Hi,
So how does one stop apache? I refer to the default setup you get under
Red Hat 6? I realise there are the "kill -TERM 'cat httpd.pid'" and
"apachetl stop" commands, but I'm not exactly sure if/how these apply.
(Note again, I'm referring to the setup under Red Hat, not the
"usr/local/apache" style setup you get from an apache download).
Thanks,
Alan.
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: "Kevin Vandersloot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Stopping apache, (Red Hat)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:50:18 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> So how does one stop apache? I refer to the
> default setup you get under
> Red Hat 6? I realise there are the "kill -TERM
> 'cat httpd.pid'" and
> "apachetl stop" commands, but I'm not exactly
> sure if/how these apply.
> (Note again, I'm referring to the setup under
> Red Hat, not the
> "usr/local/apache" style setup you get from an
> apache download).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alan.
>
>
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com http://www.help.com/
The init scripts are in
/etc/rc.d/init/
and the apache one is httpd. So just run
/etc/rc.d/init/httpd and it will give you a list
of options to stop start or restart apache.
------------------------------
From: "David J. Topper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.portable,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Shared IRQ == X lockup
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:51:25 -0400
Hi all,
I'm running Slackware 7.1 with an upgraded X 4.0.1 on my HP Omnibook
6000. Everything works fine ... until I plug it into my HP docking
station.
I have a Creative Ensoniq APCI audio card in the dock's PCI slot.
Sadly, it uses IRQ 5 ... as does the built in ESS Maestro3 chip built
into the laptop.
When I dock the machine for the first time after using it outside the
dock, everything starts up fine, but then launches X into a blank
screen. The machine is frozen. I have to hit the power key to do a
hard boot. After that things are fine.
I'd like to fix this though as it takes forever to reboot, fsck (twice
... as it results in a very serious file corruption somewhere), etc...
I've tried compiling my kernel with various options that might apply to
no avail (eg., PCI access mode DIRECT/BIOS).
I've also tried plugging the PCI card into the dock's 2nd slot. Even
worse. Then it takes up IRQ 10, which is the same as the unit's built
in modem. In this case, I hang at boot time when trying to load the
Ethernet driver.
The BIOS has no option to change anything. I've called HP Tech. support
(dancing around the issue that I'm running Linux) and they don't see a
way around the problem.
Help?
DT
--
Technical Director - Virginia Center for Computer Music
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~djt7p
------------------------------
From: "Kevin Vandersloot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Nebie question on mounting a dos partition
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:55:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Misiewicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a 13 gig (apx) linux partition and a
> 500 mb windows partiton. I
> would like to mount the windows partition,
> however I cannot seem todo this. Mount say that
> it cannot find "dos" or "vfat" in /etc/fstab or
> /etc/mtab. I am not sure If i havethe syntax
> right, I type
>
> #mount dos
> or
>
> #mount vfat
'mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win'
In this case you would have to create the
directory /mnt/win ,but you could call it whatever
you want. See 'man fstab' so you could add a line
for your windows partition to /etc/fstab. Now your
windows partition will be in /mnt/win.
------------------------------
From: "Kevin Vandersloot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are there substantially more/less RPMs for RH or SuSE?
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:57:34 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jerome Mrozak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm choosing between distros and would like to
> NOT be stuck with a distro that can't find the
> "latest and greatest" software, such as Gnome
> updates, KDE updates, editors.
>
> Being in the USA, I hear the most about RH and
> Mandrake. But when all is counted, what % of
> RPMs will work on both RH and SuSE, what % for
> RH and not SuSE, and what % for SuSE and not RH?
>
If your criteria is the amount of package support
then you definitely want RedHat.
------------------------------
From: Tron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: wine-starcraft cluster f***
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:57:36 GMT
hello all,
im attempting to get starcraft running using wine, and i got past a
few of the minor bugs but then i hit my current predicament:
err:module:BUILTIN32_dlopen failed to load libversion.so: liblz32.so:
cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
err:module:BUILTIN32_dlopen failed to load libversion.so: liblz32.so:
cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
err:module:fixup_imports module (file) VERSION.dll needed by
d:/install.exe not found
i know that a lot of software has the specifications "must be
compatible with lib something something bla blabla" or something like
that, so im assuming that ive got corrupted something or other. im
definately feeling the affects of starcraft withdrawal so if someone
would be kind enough
to help me out, that'd be great.
this has been an entirely non-ambiguous posting by
shawn
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RPM 4.0 -- DB Problem
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 03:49:19 GMT
I upgraded to RPM 4 and now get:
--> An rpm database in db1 format exists in /var/lib/rpm/packages.rpm.
Please convert to db3 format by running "rpm --rebuilddb" as root.
Segmentation fault
I rebuild and it doesn't help. Is RPM 4.0 legit?
Steve
In article <8k8pdn$sgh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Sean Daugherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello again, all. I was recently attempting to install RPM version
4.0 on
> my machine (which came with version 3.05 as packaged in Red Hat 6.2).
All
> goes well, until, that is, the thing actually gets installed. Then it
> complains that packages.rpm is in db1 format, and to upgrade it by
running
> "rpm --rebuilddb" as root. I do so. Then, it complains that
librpm.so.0
> has an undefined symbol db3New. I have the most recent version of
> BerkeleyDB I could find installed (3.1), as well as gdbm 0.8. It's
rather
> confounding, and also somewhat crippling: I can always go back to the
> version packaged with Red Hat, since I was wise enough to back up
first,
> but I need the updated version to install a number of RPMs I have.
>
> Anyone have any idea/tips on solving this little problem?
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Kernel too big
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:07 GMT
"Victor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
' By they, I mean intel. I am aware of sparc and ppc and etc, but for whatever
' reasons, they have difficulty competing with intel in the userspace/small
' server arena. I don't want a niche machine. I like intel because they are a
' market leader and they don't cost an arm and a leg. Sparc is way to
' expensive and there is no support for anything other than Solaris. PPC is
' coming along, but still there are no solutions that would let you build your
' own machine from spare parts and very limited (if not nonexistant) vendor
' support (unless you're buying a mac or a supercomputer from ibm). Alpha is
' also way to expensive and only comes into play when you are comparing prices
' to Xeons, or something in that category. What chip in RISC segment actually
' competes with Pent III 600? Maybe some PPC that can only be bought in a mac
' and that would cost you twice as much. The problems in the Intel bios aren't
' that big to justify a switch, and would not even be an issue if they were
' fixed (well, they aren't broken, but say reingineered).
I have problems with the old AT/ATX architecture, but not the CPUs.
My problems revolve around booting into real mode and the IRQ setup
that is still in use since the early 80s. My problems are also
philosophical. I've not been able to put together a good argument
that would convince someone who I know who builds all his PCs from off
the shelf parts.
I am currently taking my own first step into building a PC for a
low-end server. I am going the parts route. Information and parts
for ATX based PCs abounds. I have managed to miss any information
that may lead me to buy the parts and build my own Alpha or G4 PPC
based system from scratch and install Linux on it.
Intel has almost as much a monopoly as Microsoft. About the only real
difference is that AMD is becoming very popular in the low-end PC
market. Also, Intel is not a player in the high-end server market
because not that many people are building Beowolf clusters.
Linux and Beowolf clusters are more likely to push Intel/AMD based PCs
into the high end server market than any other current software that I
am aware of. I suspect this means that the early 80's / late 70s
technology that the ATX based PC uses to this day will be acting as a
boat anchor for some time to come.
I find that particularly ironic when you consider that Linux (and the
*BSDs) are in a position to make the hardware architecture
irrelevant. Both Linux and, AFAIK, the *BSDs have been ported to
other platforms. GCC supports other architectures, which is actually
even more important.
I think it is up to the hardware vendors to provide inexpensive
hardware options to those hobbyists who build their own machines and
to the OEMs/VARs who may assemble and configure machines so that there
are viable choices beyond the ATX formfactor. Until that happens, I
will be in an Intel world simply because I don't have much money to
spend on hardware.
One of my goals in life is to have a machine with 1TB of RAM. That
machine will most likely be a Beowolf cluster of some sort. If I had
a wad of cash, I could do it today with only 512 single CPU machines
with 2GB of RAM each. As for disk storage? Each of those boxes could
have 160GB. That would give me 80TB of storage. How many copies of
the Library of Congress is that?
I dread the electric bill!
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
``This case serves as a dire warning to all burglars. Any citizen is
entitled to use reasonable force. A householder in his own home might
not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences''
--- Mr Justice Owen at Tony Martin's murder trial as quoted by
http://www.norfolk-now.co.uk/
The ``From'' address is a valid e-mail address.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hoplite&submit=Look+it+up
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Is this a good machine for the money?
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:00:03 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore) writes:
' Their 1U and 2U rackmount machines are cheaper than VA's, and still
' nifty (I'm waiting for approval to buy a pair of the 2U boxes). You can
' do a machine for less than $2K (substantially less if you don't need
' dual capability).
I've taken the plunge into the DIY PC game. I got more HD than I
need, a Maxtor 40GB model. It was hard to pass up considering the
cost vs a 20GB model was more than half the cost of the 40GB.
I'm going with an Abit ZM6 motherboard, Celeront 533 PPGA (The ZM6
doesn't do the FC-PGA, but I don't have a use for the extra
isntructions as far as I know), and a 128MB DIMM SDRAM. I also got a
heatsink with fan for the CPU. It was only $10, so what the hey.
I've already spent more than I expected, and still need to buy a box
for it all which I will look for locally. The motherboard kit is from
one vendor, the HD, CD-ROM, NIC, and a floppy drive (just in case) are
from another vender.
This should be educational.
If it turns out that I somehow manage to come up with a popular
website, I can always put together addtional boxes.
The cost savings over VA Linux or Aslab? A few hundred dollars at
most. For me, time is cheaper than money at the moment. Building a
machine from scratch, with OS installed and configured, should also be
valuable experience.
I'll be sure to post in these two groups my results. Then those of
you who are better at shopping for parts can one up me ;-).
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
``This case serves as a dire warning to all burglars. Any citizen is
entitled to use reasonable force. A householder in his own home might
not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences''
--- Mr Justice Owen at Tony Martin's murder trial as quoted by
http://www.norfolk-now.co.uk/
The ``From'' address is a valid e-mail address.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hoplite&submit=Look+it+up
------------------------------
From: "David J. Topper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.portable,comp.os.linuxhardware
Subject: Shared IRQ == sound lockup
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:57:35 -0400
Hi all,
I'm running Slackware 7.1 with an upgraded X 4.0.1 on my HP Omnibook
6000. Everything works fine ... until I plug it into my HP docking
station.
I have a Creative Ensoniq APCI audio card in the dock's PCI slot.
Sadly, it uses IRQ 5 ... as does the built in ESS Maestro3 chip built
into the laptop.
I'm using the commercial OSS drivers ... as they are the only ones that
support the Maestro3 at this time.
When I launch soundconf, it detects everything just fine. But when I
try
soundon, it freezes the machine 90% of the time.
I've tried several measures to no avail, like compiling my kernel with
various options that might apply (eg., PCI access mode DIRECT/BIOS).
No dice.
I'm wondering if anyone has a suggestion on what to do. This is pretty
bad. It might mean that this box is not usable with the dock, which
would
be very bad.
The BIOS has no option to change anything. I've called HP Tech. support
(dancing around the issue that I'm running Linux) and they don't see a
way around the problem.
Thanks,
DT
--
Technical Director - Virginia Center for Computer Music
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~djt7p
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William W.)
Subject: Re: Why isn't [X]Emacs a word processor?
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:04:48 GMT
In our last episode (Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:55:25 GMT),
the artist formerly known as Robert Heller said:
>
>The definition of the term "Word Processing" has changed over the
>years.
Or, perhaps, "word processing" and "desktop publishing" have fused
somewhat.
>In the "old days" of daisy wheel / golf ball / 9-pin printers,
>which were all single mono-spaced font, non graphical printers,
>[X]Emacs (and its precursors, ed and teco), would have been quite
>properly considered WYSIWYG "Word Processors", although the term did
>not really exist as such.
The term couldn't be properly applied. In the first place, emacs
only edits text; it has no native format for handling things like
pagination, paragraph control, centering, and so forth. In addition,
what you see in the vi or emacs display doesn't necessarily resemble
what you see on the printed page:
.p
Even without using a proper
<em>markup language:</em>
A page
^L
break doesn't look on the screen the way it looks on the printer. The
same goes for u^H_n^H_d^H_e^H_r^H_l^H_i^H_n^H_e^H_d^H_ text,
b^Hbo^Hol^Hld^Hd text, compound characters like the pound sign (L^Hf)
and so forth. (Bold ASCII doesn't really work on my laser printer, but
I expect it would work on any other kind. But all of the ASCII control
characters can certainly be used -- in a WYSIWIG word processor, control
sequences aren't displayed, but rather their effect on the printed
document is simulated.)
>At this time (with 300dpi and higher
>graphical printers) "Word Processing" basicly means what MS-Word does
>-- MS-Word is a WYSIWYG editor / document preparation system. MS-Word
>edits AND formats documents. [X]Emacs only edits text files.
A word processing document, though, is nothing more than a text file
with embedded control sequences, much like HTML or TeX. A word
processor treats the control sequences and the target text as different
kinds of things, and presents them to the user accordingly. (Though it
is possible to toggle the display of things like field codes on many
word processors.) What separates a word processor from a text editor is
that a word processor only edits files of certain formats, whereas a
text editor can edit an arbitrarily-formatted text file. Word
processors also include facilities for processing (e.g. printing) the
formatted text. Word processors can be said to _include_ a text editor,
though they are usually very limited in functionality and have features
that might make it easier to edit documents destined for print, but
which cause problems when trying to edit other types of text, such as C
code.
>[X]Emacs
>does not do all of the things "Word Processing" has come to mean.
Nor did it ever.
>LaTeX does everything MS-Word does (and more), except 'edit'. LaTeX is
>a "Documentation Preparation System", but it is not a WYSIWYG "Word
>Processor". [X]Emacs + ispell + LaTeX will produce, *as a final
>output*, documents of much the same sort as MS-Word
Except not so poorly-formatted :-)
>(multiple *variable
>spaced* fonts, embedded graphics, etc.) except that the file you edit
>with [X]Emacs (eg foo.tex), won't look (on the screen) anything like what
>it will look once you have fed it through LaTeX and dviXXX and sent it
I think this conclusion is based on a superficial examination of the
interfaces of the two systems. I think you'll find fundamental
differences between a program like Word and a program like LaTeX that go
far beyond cosmetic issues like WYSIWYG versus YAFIYGI interfaces. The
kinds of documents LaTeX was designed to produce (and the quality with
which it produces them) are well out of Word's realm of capability, or
at least practical capability. Likewise, many of the kinds of documents
Word is commonly used to produce (memos, newsletters, and other quickie,
disposable documents with simple formatting) tend to be somewhat awkward
with LaTeX, whose overhead is often too great for these quick,
one-of-a-kind (i.e. can't be created from templates) documents.
--
It is pitch black.
You are likely to be spammed by a grue.
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