Linux-Misc Digest #565, Volume #25 Sat, 26 Aug 00 00:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: X10 control software? (Rod Haper)
internet connection (roger)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Re: X11R6.5.1? XFree86 4.0? Do I need them? (Christopher Browne)
Re: Distro change: To debian or SuSE ?? (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Re: Where to install apps on Linux system? (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Re: New Palmtop running Linux! (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Visio for linux (MegaSurge)
Headless X86 Linux system (fred smith)
Re: KPPP and PPPd Question ("Rinaldi J. Montessi")
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Christopher Browne)
Re: Please sign the "Grand Prix Legends" petition! (Ript)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rod Haper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: X10 control software?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:19:20 GMT
He also will probably want to lurk on the comp.home.automation newsgroup.
William Alexander Segraves wrote:
>
> Try http://misterhouse.net . Also, TPJ #17, pp. 39-51 and pp. 46-51.
>
> These should help get you started.
>
> Bill Segraves
> Auburn, AL
>
> "DAVID L. ORMAND" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8o6p3n$fu9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > I'm getting into home automation with X-10, and got the IBM Home Director
> > kit (www.smarthome.com), which includes an interface (CM-11) that you can
> > talk to with the serial port. It comes with software for (urp) Windows,
> > of course. I'm wondering if anybody knows if there is linux software that
> > will work. I've heard that there is, looking for confirmation/directions.
> > --
------------------------------
From: roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: internet connection
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:29:40 GMT
i can connect to my isp and the connection remains, but i cannot get my
netscape browser to work. So I cannot surf or communicate.
can anyone help
thanks roger
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:35:56 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when paul snow would say:
>Here is a few observations:
>
>Linux on the desktop (and as a server) requires it to beat Windows XXX hands
>down for ease of configuration, security, and management.
>
>Installing software is simply the act of constructing in storage a proper
>representation of the software. In other words, our talking about
>installing software on a computer is like a painter insisting she is
>installing a picture of a duck onto her painting. It doesn't matter how she
>does it, she is rendering the duck, not installing it.
>
>We need to get rid of install programs, on all platforms. There isn't
>another single thing we do on computers that causes more in dollars and time
>(Solitaire *is* a close second, however ;-).
>
>XML can be used to define a program in abstract. A single, separate
>Software Rendering Facility can be used to take a program's abstract form in
>XML and render it to the target computer system.
>
>XML can be used to capture the options required for this rendering.
>
>XML can be used to refer to a group of programs in abstract (XML), and their
>options (XML), in order to define a single definition that can be expressed
>in different ways on different computer systems to construct an operational,
>distributed application. (Unlike today, where we have to install every web
>server, every firewall, every Java JDK, every etc. all from scratch, with
>one mistake preventing any of it from working!)
>
>This discussion about how XML might be used along with Linux to create a new
>concept in Operating Systems is beginning. We have the technology and the
>know how. We just have to take our computer system, set it on its side and
>view it a bit differently. This technology is going to completely change
>the rules of software configuration, management, and security, and you can
>make it happen.
>
> http://www.egroups.com/group/xmlos/
> http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/xmlos/
>
>Paul Snow
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Go design your "XMLOS," and be happy.
If you feel that there is some value in using Linux as the kernel for
your "XMLOS," that's well and good.
Here are a few more observations:
- There is _NO_ requirement that Linux "beats" Windows XXX; if Linux
happens to be a _useful_ OS kernel, and if systems constructed on
that kernel happen to be _useful_, they will get used.
- I suggest that you not talk about "installing ducks;" if you
actually have a point to make about installation, it will be better
made by demonstrating the point, not by making vague analogies.
- You seem to have fallen into the trap of believing all the hype
about XML. Yes, XML can be used to "express anything," but the same
is just as true of ASCII as well as of S-expressions.
If you want to use data-driven programs, I suggest you consider
looking at Open Genera, which is just such a system. If the fact
that it uses Lisp scares you, then that probably means that _real_
data driven programming is far too scary for you to be able to cope
with.
In any case, the discussion certainly belongs elsewhere than
*.linux.*.
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "acm.org")
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
The people's revolutionary committee has decided that the name "e" is
retrogressive, unmulticious and reactionary, and has been flushed.
Please update your abbrevs.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: X11R6.5.1? XFree86 4.0? Do I need them?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:35:57 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Andrew Purugganan would
say:
>I have an old 233Mhz PC with a Diamond Stealth+Voodoo1 card, so it
>may not be worth the trouble or time-to-download.
X11R6.5.1 is a brand spanking new sample release that probably doesn't
support your graphics card, and which certainly hasn't had the
"systems integration" work done to make it usable to anyone that is
not comfortable with compiling X from scratch.
The same is true, though arguably somewhat less so, for XFree86 4.0.1.
I'd suggest waiting for XFree86 4.0.x until some time in the fall as
installation tools start to mature.
--
(concatenate 'string "aa454" "@" "freenet.carleton.ca")
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
"I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few
months. I just love debugging ;-)" -- Linus Torvalds
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Distro change: To debian or SuSE ??
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:36:08 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Kyle Parfrey would say:
>First of all I don't want to know what the "best" distribution is, so
>don't start on that :)!
>I am currently using Caldera 2.4, but am considering changing distro
>due to some problems. I am by no means an experienced linux user, having
>only about 3 weeks use time but am thinking of trying debian , partly because
>I hear it has a program that eradicates the annoying dependancy problems
>with rpms.
>
>Some questions:
>Is debian as hard as they say?
If you're scared of command lines, then perhaps.
If you're not afraid of seeing stuff that is _not_ graphical, it
should not be considered dauntingly difficult.
>Does the apt-get program work?
Absolutely.
>Can debian use rpm and is it easy to get .deb packages?
There _is_ a package called "alien" that translates RPM files into
.deb form and vice-versa; it may be reasonable to use it for
_applications_, but it is _not_ terribly satisfactory for use with
libraries and other lower level "system stuff."
I've used alien to take RPMs for the SAP R/3 presentation server and
run it on Debian; works fine.
I wouldn't even _think_ about trying to install GNOME via translating
RPMs into .deb form; that would be _insane._
A _better_ answer is to not need to translate at all, but rather use
applications compiled and packaged for use with Debian. There are a
_HUGE_ number of applications packaged by interested people for use
with Debian, and that sort of stuff is readily available whether from
"official" sources (e.g. - ftp.debian.org, www.debian.org, and mirrors
thereof), or from other sites. See:
<http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/debian/apt-sources/>
>General: is it good?
Not to be too Clintonesque (which meaning of "the" are you talking
about? :-)), but it all depends on what metrics you have for "good."
>A review in kclinux.com talks of a "commercial version" including 3 cd's
>and a book. Where can this be got, a vendor in europe is needed as I
>live in Ireland. I would be looking for Debian 2.2
Look for some options at:
<http://www.debian.org/distrib/vendors#uk>
You can get an "Official Debian 2.2" package with 3 CDs for 3 pounds
from <http://tree.uk.com>
This doesn't include the "Installing Debian" book from O'Reilly that
comes with the "boxed set" produced by VA Linux Systems, but I hope
you can locate books through other means.
>Other than that I see that SuSE are about to launch a new version.
>Thinking of that also.
SuSE 7 is coming shortly; it has a whole _barrel_ of software with it,
coming with, in the "boxed" form, about 6 CDs full of stuff.
Probably the _best_ way of deciding is to look around and see if there
are people nearby in Ireland running one or another system that would
be willing to be of some assistance when you run into things you don't
quite understand.
OpenBSD is a (non-Linux) system that is often considered somewhat
daunting to get installed; if you had a friend locally that could help
you out, that "scary" choice could well be the best one for you
because the "daunting" parts are overcome by having someone that can
help you past them.
--
(concatenate 'string "aa454" "@" "freenet.carleton.ca")
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
"I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few
months. I just love debugging ;-)" -- Linus Torvalds
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:36:25 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Matthias Warkus would say:
>It was the 24 Aug 2000 10:43:56 -0600...
>...and Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Take a look at MacOS X Bundles:
>[schnipp]
>> Linux is halfway there already with RPM and deb; but the ultimate goal
>> is to just get rid of them.
>
>Uh-oh, I feel another flamewar coming up on NeXTish .app encapsulation
>vs. the classic Unix way of spreading an application out over bin,
>lib, share etc...
I think that makes the mistaken assumption that people _understand_
the NeXT approach.
The flames are not likely to come as a result of people knowing about
.app and "classic Unix," and considering one or the other to be
superior.
The flames will mainly come as a result of people not understanding
_either_, and associating things with some "Star Wars-like" epic
battle between the Rebellion and the Empire...
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "hex.net")
<http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
Rules of the Evil Overlord #14. "The hero is not entitled to a last
kiss, a last cigarette, or any other form of last request."
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Where to install apps on Linux system?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:36:30 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Andrew Purugganan would say:
>Dances With Crows ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>[ /opt is often a symlink to /usr/local/opt, since that allows you to keep
>[ local and optional things all in one place. Though it may not look like
>[ it at first glance, the directory structure of Linux is laid out in a
>[ logical fashion and there are some definite rules about what can go
>[ where--search for "Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard".
>
>what gets confusing to the newbies (hey, I'm a
>newbie-running-on-and-off-linux-for-2-years-now) is when we see bin or
>usr appear in so many places (I don't know if those are good examples)
>and that's where we can get lost. I wish some of the magazines would put
>out a poster that shows the heirarchy or tree. Maybe that'll help the
>rest of us look for XF86Config or XF86setup or something e.g. I could
>scribble it on that chart for later
>
>But thanks for your replies, they're very informative
You really ought to take a look at FHS.
<http://www.pathname.com/fhs/>
This site documents quite a bit of the "archaeology" of where the
hierarchy came from.
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
"If roach hotels worked on pointy haired people, Microsoft would die."
-- Pete Koren
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:37:11 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when [EMAIL PROTECTED] would say:
>
>Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8o4ina$daf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> : This who XML hysteria worries me. We have people thinking that it is
>> : something other than a very inefficient text based file format. Example:
>
>As a a data storage format XML is no better than any other file format and
>it does not prevent creating none portable private data format.
>
>Remember this example:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?>
> <!DOCTYPE RESULTSET SYSTEM "http://fubar.com/fubar.dtd">
> <RESULTSET>
> <RESULT ID="0" >
> <MATCHES>0</MATCHES>
> <TIME>0.1605</TIME>
> <RATINGS>0</RATINGS>
> <MAXSCORE>2510</MAXSCORE>
> <SCORE>6947</SCORE>
> <SIZE>6536</SIZE>
> <LANGUAGE>_LANG1_</LANGUAGE>
> <DATE>957148708</DATE>
> <FORMAT>0</FORMAT>
> <MODDATE>0</MODDATE>
> </RESULT>
> </RESULTSET>
>
>
>How portable would this version of it be?
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?>
> <!DOCTYPE RST "http://localhost/fubar.dtd>
> <RST>
> <R ID="0" >
> <F0>A</F0>
> <F1>q20e3</F1>
> <F2>e</F2>
> <F3>lsm2</F3>
> <F4>928l</F4>
> <F5>pqke</F5>
> <F6>2ksnfui</F6>
> <F7>mpqw395hg</F6>
> <F7>2</F7>
> <F8>5</F8>
> </R>
> </RST>
Indeed.
And those that think that using XML will magically eliminate all the
compatibility problems of the world seem to have missed that the world
already rejected a fairly much isomorphic data representation, namely
Lisp S-expressions:
(setf document
'(xml ((version . 1.0) (encoding . "iso-8859-1"))
(doctype ((resultset) (system "http://fubar.com/fubar.dtd"))
(resultset
(result '((id 0))
(matches 0)
(time 0.1605)
(ratings 0)
(maxscore 2510)
(score 6947)
(size 6536)
(language "LANG1")
(date 957148708)
(format 0)
(moddate 0))))))
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
<http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sgml.html>
Well, I wish you'd just tell me rather than trying to engage my
enthusiasm, because I haven't got one.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: New Palmtop running Linux!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:37:22 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when foxy would say:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Haynes) wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phillip Deackes) writes:
>>...
>> I'm holding out hopes for a Yopy, myself. Or anything with a builting
>web
>> cam ;8)
>>...
>Tim,
>
> Yopy Status Bummer - not available till next spring
>
>http://www.gmate.co.kr/english/frame1.htm
Looking at the site, availability appears to be scheduled for
December, which is still a fair ways away.
I'm remaining a mite skeptical of the plethora of "Linux-based PDAs;"
it seems to me that most of them are basically "excuses to avoid
paying royalties for WinCE," as opposed to being designed to be good
on their own merits.
PalmOS still seems to likely be more "usable" for a while yet.
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "hex.net")
<http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused his dentist's novocaine
during root canal work? He wanted to transcend dental medication.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:37:34 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when [EMAIL PROTECTED]
would say:
>A file system is nothing more than structured storage. I believe most
>will agree that XML can indeed be used to define structured storage. I
>guess someone could argue that a file system is not structured data, or
>that a file system is the one structured data form cannot be described
>by XML. Such arguments would be pretty stupid, however.
XML represents _one form_ of a particular _SERIALIZED_ form of
"structured storage."
As such, while it would be possible to describe all of a system using
an XML document, that would probably be rather useless, as you need
some substrate on which the XML is to be stored.
In effect, XML _can't_ be the "base;" there needs to be a serial
stream on which to place the XML-formatted material. You need
something below it.
It seems more useful to talk about that specific "thing that is
below."
>*** (12) Allows configuration fixes to be formally defined
>
>Configuration fixes are changes to storage. XML provides a means of
>providing a formal definition of such fixes. These are changes to the
>file system, registry, etc. This is storage, and as such it can be
>defined in abstract using the tags and references the developer's have
>defined in the XML definition of their software.
>
>I see no big problems to formally defining configuration fixes using
>XML.
Have you got a DTD to represent formal definitions? Perhaps based on
Z?
If you do not have a language for representing formal definitions,
then all you're saying is that "someone could use XML as a substrate
to represent a formal definition language." Which does nothing about
implementing such a thing.
>*** (13) Allows such fixes to be accessed over the web
>
>XML over the Web. Do we really have to argue this one?
No, there are no "objections" particularly relevant to transmission of
data over the web.
>*** (14) Allows such fixes to be applied automatically
>
>If the fix is delivered in XML, applied to the storage configuration as
>defined by the XML of the installed packages, the installation should
>be automatic. This is aided by the idea that the Software Rendering
>Facility maintains a meta model for the computer system through time.
But is it _appropriate_ to apply the change?
If a change affects the behaviour of a system, then it is not safe to
assume that this change in behaviour is _appropriate_, as there may be
local usage and configuration that depends on the old behaviour that
would _BREAK_ when "fixes" are pushed in automagically.
>*** (15) Allows setup options to be recorded and managed.
>
>The options one sets today as one installs are nothing more than
>decision points in determining how the application should be rendered
>into storage. The abstract XML representation of an application can
>certainly define what these decision points are, and how to query the
>user for them if necessary. Yet given that they are tagged and
>defined, the software rendering facility can collect and understand the
>data used at these points as well. This is again, structured
>information.
XML can be used to "define" anything.
But "define" is not the same as "identify."
_Identification_ of correct configuration is not something that can be
done as automatically as you imply.
>*** (16) Allows simulated configuration for debugging purposes.
>
>Because the decision points are defined in the abstract representation
>of the application, various inputs can be simulated.
And if there is a need to roll back changes, what then?
And if transactional changes are made that _cannot_ be rolled back
along with the changes in configuration, _what then_?
For instance, suppose a configuration change is made to the accounting
system, a cheque is printed based on that configuration, and then it
is determined that the configuration was bad, and should be rolled
back.
The system must have a way of distinguishing between the configuration
data that is to be rolled back, and transactional data (like recording
info about a cheque that was printed) that _CANNOT BE ROLLED BACK_,
even if the amount or payee was _WRONG_.
If you try to imply XML has the slightest thing to do with resolving
these kinds of issues, then you're _drastically_ naive.
>This design is about doing configuration management at the lowest, most
>basic level. We don't want to use complicated abstractions, because
>doing so will only tie our hands. This is about simple, fast, and down-
>right low to the ground.
Evidently you want to build Fundamentally Unimportant Systems, because
systems that are actually important require abstractions that can't be
oversimplified just for the sake of pushing it all into the
procrustean bed of "pretending to be pervasively about XML."
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
"Now, if someone proposed using people who spam comp.sys.* groups with
political screeds in place of lab rats for drug testing, I'd
wholeheartedly concur". -- John C. Randolph
------------------------------
From: MegaSurge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Visio for linux
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:34:33 -0700
Does anyone know if there is a GPL linux application that either can
edit visio files or read/convert them into the programs file type? I
have some visio documents but I'm not sure how I would read them? I
don't dual-boot my system or have any copies of MS Windows in which I
could use to emulate windows or anything like that, so I actually need
an app built for linux that could do this. Any info will be
appreciated. Thanks.
--
"The world is full of power and energy and a person can go far by just
skimming
off a tiny bit of it." Neal Stephenson - Snow Crash
===============================================================================
|MegaSurge |aka PolarBear |
|ICQ#: 2908964 |AOL Messenger Name: megasurg |
|http://www.setec-astronomy.org |PGP Pub Key on pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 |
===============================================================================
------------------------------
From: fred smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Headless X86 Linux system
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:43:20 GMT
My employer is preparing to ship a turnkey Linux system complete with
one of our applications.
The question came up whether it was necessary to include a monitor and
keyboard, or if it could be run "headless".
As far as I know, you need (or at least ought to have) a monitor/video
card/keyboard for the boot process if for no other reason than to allow
you to view the POST and any BIOS errors that may occur.
Does anyone have any experience with headless X86 Linux boxes, or
can someone point me to HOWTOs or other docs on the subject?
Thanks!
--
---- Fred Smith -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------
"And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government there will be no end. He
will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding
it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever."
=============================== Isaiah 9:7 (niv) ==============================
------------------------------
From: "Rinaldi J. Montessi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: KPPP and PPPd Question
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:44:56 -0400
Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows) writes:
>
> >Is kppp SUID root? The documentation for kppp (read it!)
>
> Where exactly is this documentation?
>
> --
> Timothy Murphy
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> tel: 086-233 6090
> s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
At the end of the locate rainbow?
~]# locate kppp | grep doc | grep html
Point your browser at the results, start with index.html, probably.
--
Rinaldi]$
The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who, in time of
moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:45:27 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when The Ghost In The Machine
would say:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, mlw
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>That's all that XML is, nothing more. It can not replace programs, it is
>>not a new concept in operating systems.
>
>It might replace programs (programs are interpreted data in their
>own right, after all -- to the right interpreter, such as an x86
>micro, a JVM, or even a BASIC environment), but it sure looks
>hard to manage, although not too hard to generate.
It only "replaces" programs if it can express programs itself.
Note that providing the ability to _embed_ programs is not that;
that merely replaces one language with another.
>But why can't we use a schema/data approach? Something like:
>
>first 8 bytes - magic signature number, just because
>byte - endianity
>byte - user-defined version ID
>2 bytes - number of fields
>field descriptor byte: 0=short, 1=long, 2=float, 3=double,
> 4=zero-terminated string
>field name: zero-terminated string
>field descriptor byte:
>field name:
>...
>
>(The floats would be in IEEE format, which is the one 680x0 and
>80x86 micros use -- and possibly a large number of other computer
>systems.)
>
>Surely somebody out there's thought of a standard for this.
There's not one; there's several.
Leaping to mind are:
a) IIOP - the Internet protocol defined for CORBA that does
essentially what you describe, albeit a _little_ differently;
b) Casbah's LDO (Lightweight Distributed Objects)
>Or one can use a chunky format, something a la Amiga's IFF,
>where data is in chunks, understood by each program. Chunks
>could even have DTD-like structures if necessary.
>
>But nooooooo....we get to clutter up what is essentially a
>data-centric stream with a lot of framing clutter. Unless
>I'm missing something in the DTD spec which allows for the
>specification in binary of all of this data...?
I think WAP provides some such mapping...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/corba.html>
"What did we agree about a leader??"
"We agreed we wouldn't have one."
"Good. Now shut up and do as I say..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:45:32 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Bob Hauck would say:
>On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:40:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>[snip miracle-working]
Indeed. All the problems of interoperability, complex systems, and
programming, resolved into a simple matter of a little XML, all in
a couple hundred lines.
>>Let�s try to discuss what it is going to take to make the above
>>happen.
>
>Oh, you'll be having a talk about witchcraft then?
>
>[snip a few hundred lines of handwaving]
Handwaving that is at least vigorous enough to keep someone off the
ground for a couple of seconds, given a trampoline and a 50 foot cliff...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
"sic transit discus mundi"
-- From the System Administrator's Guide, by Lars Wirzenius
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ript)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,rec.autos.simulators
Subject: Re: Please sign the "Grand Prix Legends" petition!
Date: 26 Aug 2000 03:00:11 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Shearman) wrote in <8o57n1$1jok$1
@news.adamastor.ac.za>:
>They know where you live >)
>
>They are everywhere
>
>They move among us unnoticed but spake they do with voices loud...
>
>hold those thoughts!
heheheheheh OK....
------------------------------
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