Linux-Misc Digest #656, Volume #27 Fri, 20 Apr 01 01:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: getty replacement? ("Jeffrey J. Bacon")
Re: tty7,8,...? ("Jeffrey J. Bacon")
Re: tomcat experience ("Jeffrey J. Bacon")
Re: Reliability of "time" command? ("Jeffrey J. Bacon")
Re: A Linux emulator for Linux, does this exist? (Grant Edwards)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Franek)
Re: Am I ****? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: getty replacement? (Dances With Crows)
Re: Reliability of "time" command? (MH)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:40:04 -0400
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charles Lyttle
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:28:40 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >I see the same thing. But NT is not often used where it could, due
> >either a crash or lack of timeliness, do any damage to the work process.
> >I have seem it tried several times. One crash shut down a process line
> >permitting liquid nylon to harden in pipes and valves. 15 minutes off
> >line cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Another caused
> >disruption of a refinery operation. It took several days to get the
> >plant cleaned up and back on line.
>
> Dumb question, but .... whatever happened to the concept of redundancy?
Missing such obvious computer principles correlates highly with using
Windows in general.
> I'll admit it adds to expense (specifically, equipment and software
> licensing costs), but as far as I can tell, many web server farms using
> NT have just that: web server farms, with multiple machines; this makes
> the reliability quite adequate -- maybe even 99.999 % (5 minutes/year)... :-)
>
> Granted, this is a far cry from industrial control processes.
> (How long does it take for nylon to harden in a tube line, just out
> of curiosity? Are we talking hours, minutes, or seconds?)
>
> (ObLinuxPlug: Linux would work very well here :-) )
>
> >
> >I build SCADA system also. Several US cities are running systems I
> >designed. But if the operator displays fail, the A-B PLCs and
> >specialized computers will still run everything OK. The operator, just
> >has to run around to check local controls like he did before the
> >computers were installed.
>
> Can't comment unless SCADA systems are things like those used in
> metropolitan traffic projects with gigantic status screens showing
> where every traffic light, streetcar, or train is.
>
> [rest snipped]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 1d:22h:34m actually running Linux.
> We are all naked underneath our clothes.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey J. Bacon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: getty replacement?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:40:20 GMT
right, but it also displays the /etc/issue onscreen and ignores the ansi
color codes in it. I want something that will read the color codes and
display color in the /etc/issue file. -- have you seen the color
penguin in the Mandrake 7 (or 8?) login screen? that's what I want to
design for my RedHat 7 box.
Hartmann Schaffer wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jeffrey J. Bacon wrote:
> >is there a replacement for getty/mingetty that will interpret ansi
> >colour escape sequences and display /etc/issue & /etc/motd with colours?
>
> i think you are looking in the wrong place. check out the utilities for
> keyboard and video handling. getty doesn't do any more than establish
> a connection to the terminal and start up a user session
>
> --
>
> hs
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "The cheapest pride is national pride. I demonstrates the lack of
> characteristics and achievements you can be proud of. The worst loser
> can have national pride" - Schopenhauer
--
================================
Jeffrey Bacon
================================
Administrator, Breakfast.ca
Student, Carleton U.
Java Programmer, Extrordinaire!
================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.breakfast.ca/~jjbacon
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey J. Bacon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: tty7,8,...?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:41:24 GMT
so if I just copy those lines in the /etc/inittab file (changing thier
id to 7,8,..) and open getty on tty7,8,9... then I'll get those virtual
terminals?
Hartmann Schaffer wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jeffrey J. Bacon wrote:
> >right now only F1-F6 bring up new virtual consoles, can I get F7-F12 to
> >work?
>
> do you have X installed? usually it grabs tty7 (actually, the first free
> tty). tty1 - tty6 are grabbed to invocations of getty in /etc/inittab.
>
> --
>
> hs
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "The cheapest pride is national pride. I demonstrates the lack of
> characteristics and achievements you can be proud of. The worst loser
> can have national pride" - Schopenhauer
--
================================
Jeffrey Bacon
================================
Administrator, Breakfast.ca
Student, Carleton U.
Java Programmer, Extrordinaire!
================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.breakfast.ca/~jjbacon
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey J. Bacon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: tomcat experience
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:44:24 GMT
how have your experiences been with Tomcat 4? worth getting? I didn't
get an RPM of tomcat 3.2.1 I had a zip file I unpacked. if 4 is decent
maybe I'll get that but I hear it's still beta and I don't know if I
want to mess around with this stuff too much after I have it up and
running.
can you post the script for the rc.X directory for me to copy?
Robert Lynch wrote:
>
> "Jeffrey J. Bacon" wrote:
> >
> > anyone have any Tomcat 3.2.1 experience that I could draw on?
> >
> > I need Tomcat to start on boot but it's not working with a
> > 'TOMCAT_HOME/bin/tomcat.sh start' call in my rc.local -- it seems to
> > need a manual startup in a console so it can direct error messages to
> > that console on which it was started.
> > --
> > ================================
> > Jeffrey Bacon
> > ================================
> > Administrator, Breakfast.ca
> > Student, Carleton U.
> > Java Programmer, Extrordinaire!
> > --------------------------------
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.breakfast.ca/~jjbacon
>
> I'm running Tomcat 4 now, but I used to run 3.2. I haven't run
> it manually from a .sh script for a while, but I think when I
> did, I ran something like startup.sh which then called tomcat.sh.
>
> On RedHattish boxes, after an rpm install there is a script in
> /etc/rc.d/init.d which does the trick. Has for me, anyhow, for
> quite a while.
>
> You just do, say, "chkconfig --level 2345 tomcat on", then
> "/etc/rc.d/init.d/tomcat start". This starts it up one time in
> the current run level; and on next boot it will automatically
> start in levels 2,3,4,5.
>
> I don't like to run Tomcat all the time, so I have a bunch of
> aliases in .bashrc to start and stop it, and also to take me to
> the servlet and jsp directories that I use (in ROOT):
>
> # 10-31-00 Tomcat paths
> alias tom='cd /var/tomcat4/webapps/ROOT'
> alias tomcl='cd /var/tomcat4/webapps/ROOT/WEB-INF/classes'
> alias tstart='/etc/rc.d/init.d/tomcat4 start'
> alias tstop='/etc/rc.d/init.d/tomcat4 stop'
>
> HTH. Bob L.
> --
> Robert Lynch Berkeley CA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
================================
Jeffrey Bacon
================================
Administrator, Breakfast.ca
Student, Carleton U.
Java Programmer, Extrordinaire!
================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.breakfast.ca/~jjbacon
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey J. Bacon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reliability of "time" command?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:47:44 GMT
if you have SCSI drives, the CPU doesn't really effect the transfer of
data. The SCSI controller deals with that. On IDE drives you may see a
difference but usually the bottle neck is not the CPU but the transfer
rate of the drive/bus.
in your case, I would expect both CPUs to have low activity while
transferring data as I believe that the data would bypass the CPU and
that transfer should be handled by the SCSI controller, I could be wrong
but that's how I understand it.
MH wrote:
>
> I recently posted a question asking how to measure elapsed time in Linux.
> I was told to use the "time" command. Experimenting with some trivial
> commands, it looked to be just the ticket. So I modified the cron scripts
> I use to clone my system drives and discovered something very strange.
> Both scripts took almost *exactly the same time* to complete, even though
> one box was running a CPU at 400 MHz and the other at 800 MHz. Both boxes
> have 256 MB PC100 ECC RAM. Furthermore, the box with the slower CPU is
> transferring nearly 3 times as much data!!!
>
> Both boxes have identical HDD subsystems, specifically, both use Adaptec
> 2940 UW SCSI controllers to manage a pair of IBM 9.1 GB 7200 RPM HDDs (one
> system, one clone). The controllers are set up identically, even using the
> same version of firmware. Both boxes are running the 2.2.19 kernel.
>
> I would be interested if anyone can explain this apparent anomaly.
>
> --
> I use GNU/Linux and support the Free Software Foundation. This message was
> composed and transmitted using free software, licensed under the General
> Public License.
> --
--
================================
Jeffrey Bacon
================================
Administrator, Breakfast.ca
Student, Carleton U.
Java Programmer, Extrordinaire!
================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.breakfast.ca/~jjbacon
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Edwards)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: A Linux emulator for Linux, does this exist?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 04:08:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jonadab the Unsightly One wrote:
>>>happen. According to folklore, you can pretty much replace an entire 390 one
>>>piece at a time without ever rebooting -- I imagine that's a bit exagerated.
>>
>> Yes, I believe you can. If everything in the system is hot-swappable, why
>> not?
>
>There's got to be a bus that connects everything.
Rudundant interconnects are possible. Don't know if the 390 has them.
>Even if you can swap out one-by-one all the hard drives, all the RAM, all
>the I/O stuff, individual processors, and so on, at some point there's going
>to be a piece that ties it all together, the bus if you will. Unless it's
>highly modular, you won't be able to swap out that part with the system
>running.
There probably are single points of failure in some inter-connect hardware.
>Also the power supply could be a problem, unless
>it has multiple redundant power supplies.
The power-supply is one of the simplest for which to provide redundancy. Far
easier than disks, memory or CPUs. A couple current steering diodes, and
Bob's your uncle.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... My pants just
at went on a wild rampage
visi.com through a Long Island
Bowling Alley!!
------------------------------
From: Franek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 04:10:41 GMT
Brent R wrote:
> Franek wrote:
> > er... I've done some work on the "factory floor" and I've used different operating
> > systems. First (I'll probably be crucified now) linux crashes just as well as NT,
> > especially with some of the crap that's out there (of course it doesn't show blue
>on
> > screen <g>, maybe that makes it preferable.) Second, NT is used an *awful* lot in
>the
> > factory environment, and again, it's not that bad, no Sir, not at all. Lastly,
>whatever
> > application you're running that *must* not abend, you won't run either on NT or
>linux, or
> > anything else of the kind. For critical real-time control none of these will do.
>QNX will
> > do, as will some specialized systems like DCSs or PLCs. General-purpose boxes
>normally run
> > user interfaces, data collection, recipe loading, this kind of things, not the RT
>control.
> > This stuff can be rebooted relatively harmlessly.
> >
> > The problems with NT have rather something to do with:
> > - cost of licensing and idiotic conditions with artificial limitations
> > - goddamned size of it (linux can be chopped up and configured *exactly* for that
>task you
> > need)
> > - related to the previous: a potentially higher cost of hardware--sometimes it's
> > important.
>
> Hmmm... if you read my other posts and you'll see that I am in no way a
> MS-basher... usually I'm bashing some of the Linux kooks in here...
That's good, and I didn't mean to flame actually, if it came through like that I
apologize. Let there be Peace <g>.
> I have never had Linux even come close to crashing.
That at least depends on the software you run on it. I see it crash every day, during
development of course, but still. I'd say they're about the same if you weigh in all
the
factors.
> CAPS key and watch the light actually go on and off without failure
> (something I could not do in in Windows98).
Ah well, who's talking about 98 <g>?
> I've had problems with NT, not nearly as bad as Windows 98
No sense to even compare. These are different OS'es.
> problems then Linux. I personally can't tell if it's due to bad
> administration or what... it also has to do with a misbehaving app
> locking up the system (and the three fingered salute doesn't bring up
> the NT process screen right away).
That can easily happen, true.
> NT is also a huge resource hog...
Very true. Linux shines in that respect. Otoh, if you load it up as NT, gui and all,
it'll
probably be just as bad or even worse. It's really difficult to compare as a general
case.
> I would suggest that the only reason why NT is making inroads is that
> company's are making apps for it...
Well, that is certainly true, but it's not all there's to it. You gotta admit honestly
that NT is a very rich development environment with great tools. As a workstation where
all its components can really be put to good use, it is very good. As a server, that
becomes more questionable, and in any configuration it's definitely not a good choice
for
an embedded box.
> and phasing out UNIX.
Unix is used an awful lot, I don't think it gets phased out. Again, maybe as a desktop
it
is, but in general it's very strong on the server side.
> I've never heard of QNX (please divulge).
It's a real-time unix. We, for example, make boards that are run under it. Very much
proprietary <g>.
> these companies use IBM mainframes?
They used a lot as well but in places like airline ticket reservation etc. Power,
redundancy, availability, etc., no Unix, much less Windows has got anywhere close to
what
these beasties can do.
> altogether and go with a WS or mainframe. Let's face it... PC's are fast
> but they're pieces of junk.
Why do you say that? Compared to what, mainframes <g>?
> with the punishment that would be dealt to it on a factory floor.
I'm not sure that's true, but perhaps you could point out to something specifically.
There
are many hardened boxes that behave fine on the factory floor, and not only there: IBM
makes this Netframe thing which is truly like a bulldoser. Did you mean some
architectural
attributes?
> used an IBM mainframe (ES/9000, VSE/ESA) for about 1.5 years now, and
> I've seen how much more robust they are and how much PC's suck.
Well, hello, how many of those do you have at home tell me <g>. You're comparing
different
things.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: rec.photo.digital,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I ****? HP Photosmart C500 and Win 2000
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:17:13 -0400
Ed wrote:
>
> Tor, you seem to be obsessed with your claim that "to be f*****" is correct
> and common English. Now I've been to Norway several times, and I find it to
> be a fine country with wonderful people, many of whom speak English quite
> well, but I can't help but observe that for most of them it is not their
> native language, and they would probably refrain from lecturing others on
> correct usage of it.
>
> As for your specific claim, you seem an intelligent fellow, but you cannot
> be serious when you claim that "f***" is acceptable and normal English.
> Perhaps it was 400 years ago on a dock in London, but this is not 400 years
> ago. This is here and now, and the word "f***" is currently considered not
> acceptable for public usage. So continue to amuse yourself with Ye Olde
> Dictionary if you like, but you really aren't at all persuasive on the
> matter.
You've never heard "The fucking fuck's fucked!" ???
>
> --
> ---
> "Tor Iver Wilhelmsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Jim Knowles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > On the other hand, there's always the possibility that a preference
> > > for intercourse with his camera is the REAL reason our friend above
> > > has refrained from procreation.....
> >
> > I don't get you assholes: You keep throwing around pathetic insults at
> > anyone who posted anything non-negative about the presence of the four
> > letter word in the initial subject line - without EVER providing an
> > alternative to the common English expression "to be fucked" when used
> > in this non-sexual context.
> >
> > Please get some life, all of you.
> >
> > --
> > Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > This line intentionally left cluttered. dfgjksdfdghsdknfgsjksngskj
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: getty replacement?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 20 Apr 2001 04:17:11 GMT
On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 02:57:05 GMT, Jeffrey J. Bacon staggered into the
Black Sun and said:
>is there a replacement for getty/mingetty that will interpret ansi
>colour escape sequences and display /etc/issue & /etc/motd with colours?
mingetty will do the right thing! Read my previous post again. The
ANSI sequence for "Set color to bright red" is ESC[1;33 , and if you put
that code within /etc/issue , then everything after that code will be
displayed in bright red. As I said before, the hard part is inserting
the ESC into a text file. You can use vim or emacs to do that, or you
can edit /etc/issue with a hex editor and insert the ESC that way if
learning vi is too much of a pain (as you said in E-mail.)
If you are going to call yourself "Administrator" in your .sig , then
you should learn at least the basics of vi. vi is the closest thing to
a standard editor that the Unices have, and sooner or later, you will
find yourself at a box that doesn't have your editor of choice, but does
have vi.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Workin' in a code mine, hittin' Ctrl-Alt
http://www.brainbench.com / Workin' in a code mine, whoops!
=============================/ I hit a seg fault....
------------------------------
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reliability of "time" command?
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:26:23 -0700
Jeffrey J. Bacon wrote:
> if you have SCSI drives, the CPU doesn't really effect the transfer of
> data. The SCSI controller deals with that. On IDE drives you may see a
> difference but usually the bottle neck is not the CPU but the transfer
> rate of the drive/bus.
>
> in your case, I would expect both CPUs to have low activity while
> transferring data as I believe that the data would bypass the CPU and
> that transfer should be handled by the SCSI controller, I could be wrong
> but that's how I understand it.
>
What the hell were you reading? I asked for an explanation of the apparent
anomaly in the "time" command regarding the disparity in data transfer
volumes and elapsed time. Jesus fucking christ, doesn't anybody know how
to read anymore?
--
I use GNU/Linux and support the Free Software Foundation. This message was
composed and transmitted using free software, licensed under the General
Public License.
--
------------------------------
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