Linux-Misc Digest #847, Volume #27 Sun, 13 May 01 11:13:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: chown in vfat partition (Dave Uhring)
Applix spreadsheet stock quotes import macro (Goodyear)
Re: Setting up Database usage for the users (Jerry Kreps)
Re: Very slow KDE apps (Jerry Kreps)
Re: The Distributions (Jerry Kreps)
Re: Very slow KDE apps (Professor J Frink)
Re: chown in vfat partition ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Cross-platform development tool? (Jerry Kreps)
Re: 4GB RAM Problem... (Jerry Kreps)
Re: Triple boot (is it possible?) (Rod Smith)
Re: chown in vfat partition (Professor J Frink)
Re: SuSE Linux 7.1 ISO Download (Michael Heiming)
Re: Linux in college & high school ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave Uhring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: chown in vfat partition
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 07:39:18 -0500
Bob Chan wrote:
> ok i have a file on a vfat partition (windows) it is owned by root:root,
> i'm in my users account and i want to own it so i can write to it:
>
> $ su root
> $ chown bob:users file
> $ chown: file: Operation not permitted
>
> this seems to only happen in this partition because i tried it on other
> directories in the native file system and it worked fine.
>
> any ideas? i'm on RedHat 7.0
>
> thanks,
> Bob
>
Windoze has no file attributes like ownership. You can't change the
ownership of something which really has no owner.
------------------------------
From: Goodyear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Applix spreadsheet stock quotes import macro
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:51:26 +0000
Hi...I want to be able to import the Yahoo csv files into a spreadsheet at
the end of each day for analysis but there doesn't seem to be any "import"
function. If you open the csv file it just overwrites the current
spreadsheet. If you link it just seems to put an image of the file there.
Perhaps one of you kind souls has already gone though the agony of this and
would at a minimum turn me in the right direction. I want to be able to
bring in the new data daily.
--
thanks....Brian
------------------------------
From: Jerry Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Setting up Database usage for the users
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:23:30 -0500
itisme wrote:
> HOW?????????????. TIA
>
>
> Jack
Computers don't come with crystal balls, Jack. How about some more
specificsc.
What kind of database? MySQL, Postgress, Oracle???
Are the users local or remote or does it matter?
What kind of network?
------------------------------
From: Jerry Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Very slow KDE apps
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:30:33 -0500
Dave Uhring wrote:
> Professor J Frink wrote:
Frink, aka FUDboy:
P166 Sony VAIO with 64MB... Konqueror in 15secs.
1GHz Athlon with 512MB... Konqueror immediately.
Go enjoy your WinXX and monthy pay-per-uses.
>
> >>Run 'top' and see what is hogging your CPU.
> >
> > I suspect this is merely the large overhead of KDE2 rather than anything
> > going mad in the background.
> >
> > I've seen it myself on trying to run konqueror in non KDE2 desktops and
> > that of my users using KDE2 systems.
> >
> > The whole shebang of konqueror itself + the many kdeinits seems to give
> > an easy way of coordinating things but by golly it takes a while to load
> > up. It doesn't seem to matter much the amount or RAM or CPU you have
> > spare it just takes ages to get going. And it also takes ages to stop
> > (plenty of confused users here who hit "logout" only to be presented
> > with their desktop while it 'shuts down' still fully operable until it
> > finally decides to drop back to xdm/kdm seemingly at random and without
> > warning).
> >
> > Mozilla loads faster. Netscape loads faster. While I like konqueror I
> > won't defend its load times at all.
> >
> > I don't like the complex and process hungry routines of KDE2 (what is it
> > with all these kdeinits, kdesud and nspluginviewers; they pop up all
> > over the place, giving me little knowledge as to what they're doing and
> > often end up just crashing; could you *please* at least show what you're
> > trying to run?!). Why should loading up one kde2 app entail the baggage
> > of pretty much the entirety of kde2 as well?
> >
> > KDE2 needs good RAM and CPU resources. Using any single KDE2 package
> > necessitates little less than this. I, for one, loathe KDE2 for this and
> > personally, on a server based system, find it nothing more than a huge
> > pain in the ass (or RAM) to allow my users to run it. Sure, it looks
> > nice...
> >
> > On the same hardware Windows, as a desktop, is quicker, less resource
> > hungry and complete, if you deny that then you're wearing the old
> > rose-tinted specs.
> >
> > I dunno if it's cos of preloading or what but Windows, on the same
> > hardware, loads its desktop apps a hell of a lot quicker, runs them
> > quicker, more seamlessly and often crashes less when using them.
> >
> > Linux was never *designed* to be a desktop system yet here we are trying
> > to beat it into being one. It would suit most users better to start
> > afresh with a system designed for them not to have to try to bend the
> > users into knowing the OS. But, of course, such a new system would have
> > no support from anyone; see BeOS...
> >
> > Frink
> >
>
> KDE's overhead, while objectionable, is not sufficient to cause the
> difficulty the OP is experiencing. He has a 700MHz CPU and 128MB RAM.
> While Windows may utilize fewer resources for implementing a desktop, it
> remains a single-user, barely multi-tasking, blue-screening POS with no
> security features whatsoever.
>
> If you run X on a server, then you deserve the performance penalty. My
> servers do not even have monitors attached to them. And if you don't like
> KDE then don't use it; but refrain from telling others not to use it. In
> my experience, the KDE applications work quite well and the load time is
> comparable to Windows 98SE, even considering that Windows preloads most of
> IE on boot.
>
> Add a few applications to your Windows box and just watch the System Tray
> fill up and the boot up time go to minutes. And just how does the average
> user know how to delete those things from the System Tray? I know and I
> suspect that you may, but Joe Blow certainly has no business futzing
> around
> in the registry. At least with Linux, you can easily and readily
> determine which apps will start at boot.
>
> Take your FUD to www.microsoft.com, it is not needed here. We already
> have chosen to use Linux.
>
------------------------------
From: Jerry Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Distributions
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:32:06 -0500
Silviu Minut wrote:
> This is taboo.
Definately! It's obvious that my wife is better looking than your wife.
;-)
> This question has been posted here many times before and so this is the
> place to ask it, I guess. However, the more experienced tend to dislike
> it, because virtually every time it leads to rants and wars of opinions.
>
> But, since you've asked, here's a short answer: Redhat.
> Or SuSE maybe. I heard Mandrake is not bad either. Not sure which.
>
> Oh, and I don't know if you're aware, but did you know linux is free? If
> you have a slow connection and you can't download three 650M disks you can
> spend $2 and buy whatever you want from cheapbytes.com. Life is good...
>
>
>
>
> Marshall Lake wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. If not then
> > please
> > direct me. Or if there is a document available someplace which already
> > covers this subject then please let me know.
> >
> > I would like to hear what others think is the best Linux distribution
> > available containing the 2.4.x kernel.
> >
> > The most important factors for me are 2.4.x kernel availability,
> > everything working, amount of utilities and programs available with the
> > distro (the more the better), and latest versions of everything.
> >
> > Unimportant factors for me are ease of installation (I figure I should
> > be able to install anything as long as others already have) and cost
> > (within reasonable limits).
> >
> > I appreciate any input at all.
> >
> > Marshall Lake - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://melake.erols.com
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Professor J Frink)
Subject: Re: Very slow KDE apps
Date: 13 May 2001 13:29:26 GMT
>KDE's overhead, while objectionable, is not sufficient to cause the
>difficulty the OP is experiencing. He has a 700MHz CPU and 128MB RAM.
Snap, and kde2 apps can take a long time to load on such a system. I work
with some kde2 apps in icewm and my users generally use kde2 now and one
thing it is not is quick and lightweight. There's still much optimisation to
be done.
>While Windows may utilize fewer resources for implementing a desktop, it
>remains a single-user, barely multi-tasking, blue-screening POS with no
>security features whatsoever.
Now who's spouting "FUD"?
>If you run X on a server, then you deserve the performance penalty. My
>servers do not even have monitors attached to them. And if you don't like
>KDE then don't use it; but refrain from telling others not to use it. In
>my experience, the KDE applications work quite well and the load time is
>comparable to Windows 98SE, even considering that Windows preloads most of
>IE on boot.
The server is (amongst other things) a cpu server, running a load of X
terminals via XDMCP. So the performance of a DE is of particular interest to
me. All I'm pointing is that kde2 isn't the be all and end all of desktops
that people make it out to be and plenty of people use their Linux machines
happily without it (barring konqueror maybe). Doesn't hurt to try out
something else instead of nobody ever saying a bad thing about it.
>Take your FUD to www.microsoft.com, it is not needed here. We already have
>chosen to use Linux.
It certainly doesn't hurt to level criticism at something, and the KDE peeps
are currently working hard to increase the speed and response of KDE2. These
are issues they know about and to just brush them under the carpet is as bad
as all the rubbish MS spout themselves.
Stating a point of view and the experiences of myself and my users does not
amount to FUD and check http://dot.kde.org/989353453/ I'm not the only one
who thinks kde2 could be much faster than it is.
Frink (getting on very well without kde2 thankyou very much)
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: chown in vfat partition
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:26:38 +0200
Bob Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ok i have a file on a vfat partition (windows) it is owned by root:root, i'm
> in my users account and i want to own it so i can write to it:
> $ su root
> $ chown bob:users file
> $ chown: file: Operation not permitted
You can't do that. This is a FAQ. Windows file systems do not support
unix concepts of owner and permission.
> this seems to only happen in this partition because i tried it on other
> directories in the native file system and it worked fine.
Brilliant, sherlock. Now carry on and reach the implied conclusion.
> any ideas? i'm on RedHat 7.0
"man mount"
Peter
------------------------------
From: Jerry Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cross-platform development tool?
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:35:53 -0500
John Hasler wrote:
> cbbrowne writes:
> > And seeing as how the entirety of Linux is implemented using GCC (you
> > cannot compile Linux using any other compiler), it would seem a more
> > credible cross-platform tool...
>
> Unless, of course, you define "cross-platform" as "Windows and Mac"...
> (Though now it appears to be being redefined as "Windows and Linux-x86".)
However, Borland will be releasing a Kylix GPL Edition later this summer.
IT will be a free download and will include everything, including CLX and
the CLX source. The only restriction will be that you can use it only to
create GPL code or code for exclusive internal use -- read: not commerical.
There are white papers (PDF) at Borland detailing their release plans.
------------------------------
From: Jerry Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: 4GB RAM Problem...
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:37:27 -0500
Have you posted this to SuSE's mail list?
(BTW, do you have 8GB of swap?)
Sipke de Wal wrote:
> Does your MOBO support caching for up to 4GB ???
> If so is it enabled in the BIOS??
>
> Some OS-ses like to allocate RAM from the highest locations downwards so
> they might run into uncached ram very soon if the caching on your MOBO is
> not effective for the top of RAM. And that slows things down dramatically!
>
> Sipke de Wal
> -----------------------------------
> http://xgistor.ath.cx
> -----------------------------------
>
> Michael Sabielny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 9dbh3v$8ir$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > recently we got a new computer with these features:
> > 2 PIII-CPUs
> > 4 GB ECC-RAM (4 DIMMs)
> > Supermicro 370DL3 Mainboard
> > OS: SuSE Linux 7.1
> > Kernel: SMP-Kernel with Support for more than 4 GB of RAM
> >
> > Wen encountered a strange effect: when we use only 3 Gigs of the RAM
> > (with one DIMM removed) the computer behaves absolutely normal and shows
> > its expected performance.
> >
> > But if we put the fouth DIMM it gets very slow, e.g. needs the double
> > time for a numerical matrix decomposition. Even the bootup time
> > increases dramatically.
> >
> > We tried various different kernels:
> > SuSE precompiled 2.2.18-SMP
> > SuSE precompiled 2.4-SMP
> > selfcompiled 2.4-SMP-4GB
> > selfcompiled 2.4-SMP-64GB
> >
> > But all kernels have the same behavior! In the moment we put the 4. DIMM
> to
> > get the full 4 Gigs we get slow...
> >
> > Has anybody got some experiance with this kind of problem?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Michael Sabielny
> > Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg
> > Department of Theoretical Electrical Engineering
> > 21071 Hamburg
> > Germany
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
==================
This space for rent
=================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod Smith)
Subject: Re: Triple boot (is it possible?)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 13:51:08 -0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Posted and mailed]
In article <9dc5i8$qmk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"DeadDuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> I have only two LILO entries -
> one for Linux partition, and one for Windows. Booting into the Linux option
> does what you'd expect, but for Windows I've always had to boot to the Win98
> partition, which then presents the option to boot Win98 or Win2K. This
> suggests to me that the Win2K has hijacked the startup procedure for Windows
> 98 rather than the MBR itself, since I've installed LILO into the MBR and it
> didn't break the Windows menu.
>
> Perhaps someone else knows how to get LILO to recognise all three
> partitions, but I suspect that the Win2K installation simply won't accept an
> attempt to boot directly off its own partition.
You're right; Windows is operating its OS Loader (aka NTLDR, and
probably other things) as a secondary boot loader. My guess is that
you've got something like Windows 98 residing on C: and Windows 2000
"residing on D:." Note I put the second of those in quotes, because
Windows 2000 is really booting from C:, although most of the OS's files
are on D:. AFAIK, there's no way to get LILO to directly boot Win2K in
a situation like this. If Win98 and Win2K were on separate primary
partitions (both on its own C: partition), LILO could do the job. It's
also conceivable you could get the commercial System Commander to do
the job, but I've never tried it in quite this way. (You'd still need
LILO to boot Linux, though.) All in all, you're probably best leaving
it as it is, since it at least works. You could easily damage the
working boot process if you muck with it.
--
Rod Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux & multi-OS configuration
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Professor J Frink)
Subject: Re: chown in vfat partition
Date: 13 May 2001 14:08:48 GMT
>> ok i have a file on a vfat partition (windows) it is owned by root:root,
>> i'm in my users account and i want to own it so i can write to it:
>>
>> $ su root
>> $ chown bob:users file
>> $ chown: file: Operation not permitted
>>
>> this seems to only happen in this partition because i tried it on other
>> directories in the native file system and it worked fine.
>>
>> any ideas? i'm on RedHat 7.0
>>
>> thanks,
>> Bob
>>
>
>Windoze has no file attributes like ownership. You can't change the
>ownership of something which really has no owner.
Well, it does sort of have an owner but only one at a time.
To get round this you can change the user/group that the filesystem applies
when mounting, eg in your /etc/fstab file you might want something like:
/dev/hda1 /windows vfat rw,uid=bob,gid=users,user 0 0
(you may need to use the numerical values for user/group)
This mounts the fat partition and all the files will have user/group of
bob/users. Your normal user can now do whatever you want in that partition.
You can also set the umask='octal' mount option to allow world readable or
writable or whatever.
Frink
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:25:38 +0200
From: Michael Heiming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SuSE Linux 7.1 ISO Download
burk wrote:
>
> On Sat, 12 May 2001 09:25:44 +0200, Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I don't get why you have to "wait". Install it directly from the ftp
> >site. Stick in boot floppy, select install via ftp, and there you go.
> >Insistence on an iso image seems plain perverse to me.
>
> Some people don't have a fast internet connection on all of their
> computers. Some people like to give Linux distro's to their friends
> who access the internet by modem.
>
> I just passed SUSE by when I was looking for a new Linux Distro with
> kernel 2.4.x to play with, strictly because their distro is not
> available as ISO. Too bad, I'd heard a lot of good things about
> SUSE. Oh well, Mandrake 8.0 seems to fit my requirements well
> enough.
Hmmm, SuSE among others pay Linux developer, that they can work full
time on
their projects (Special thanks to Alan Robertson by the way, if he reads
this).
I think that's something we should encourage, by actually buying the
distro,
special for beginners the books (yes they are on the CD)
that come printed with the distro will be very helpful.
I can't understood why everyone wants those distros for free, assuming
that most
who post here can easily afford them, I payed 79,95 DM (~40 US$) for
SuSE 7.1
upgrade, ordering directly from suse.de.
Of course there is, talking about legal issues, nothing wrong with
downloading
whole distros, but morally?
GNU/Linux is about "free in speech", not about "free beer", hope I got
that right...:-)
Michael Heiming
--
UNIX is user-friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux in college & high school
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:28:49 GMT
Linux is big at the colleges near where I live but only in the
CS/Engineering depts.
For the most part the rest of the student body is using MS or to a
surprising degree Apple. The PowerBooks are quite popular out here,
which surprised me.
flatfish
On Sun, 13 May 2001 00:56:52 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, mmnnoo
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
>on Fri, 11 May 2001 03:03:47 GMT
><nEIK6.60080$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Here's a list of the machines in the computer science dept
>>at the University of New Mexico:
>>
>>http://www.cs.unm.edu/~ssg/SSG_Hardware/byos
>>
>>any questions?
>
>I will note for the record that a large number of the machines
>are running Debian 2.2, a few are running IRIX, and, of the
>more than 80 machines listed there, only 4 are known to run any
>variant of Windows (there are two unknowns). And one of them --
>versaka-vm -- is cheating by using VMWare. :-)
>
>This according to a quick scan of the article. Impressive, actually.
>I'm kinda curious as to the manpower required to install and maintain
>all this machinery, and how that manpower would compare to a
>similar-sized lab running pure NT/W2k equipment.
>
>>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Christopher Corbell"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking for leads to information, statistics, or just individual
>>> testimonials about the use of Linux in educational settings,
>>> particularly in high school, community college, university, and grad
>>> school settings. Does anyone out there know of any general sources of
>>> information on the use of Linux in these settings? I would especially
>>> be interested in the use of Linux in math & science education. Also,
>>> I'd like to know about any advocacy groups, PC 'salvage' groups or
>>> similar organizations that are active in getting Linux used in schools.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info.
>>> - Christopher
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
