Linux-Setup Digest #431, Volume #21              Wed, 13 Jun 01 10:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card ("???")
  Re: Reference on security ("Peter T. Breuer")
  tool to look at the logs (NorbertSchmidt)
  Creating Raw Devices ("Jaishni Govender")
  Re: PPP HOWTO Fubar (Felix Miata)
  Re: Reiserfs problems?I can't mount .. (Robert Davies)
  Re: hard drive mess !@!! (Juha Kervinen)
  Re: Problems installing matrox card ("ne...")
  Re: Creating Raw Devices (H.Bruijn)
  Thanks all Re: Mayday, mayday! (Stanislaw Flatto)
  Linux partitions (patrick)
  Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card (Riyaz Mansoor)
  Re: RH 7.1: piece of garbage? (JZ)
  Re: RedHat v7.0 installation on Alpha 164LX (P.Ravialahan)
  Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card (Jesper Petersen)
  Re: Why is my sound card locking up my machine? (Jim Agnew)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "???" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:19:49 +0800


"Riyaz Mansoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ?????
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> i had similar problems. i have a sis 6326, with 8mb onboard memory which
is very similar to
> yours and is handled by the same "sis" driver.
>
> post back if u still have problems and i'll try to help. i'm one person
who went thru hell
> over the "sis" graphics card!!!
>

Hi!

I have a 4mb sis6326  running on RH7.1 /XFree 4.1.0 and driver "sis" works
"fine" for me, however, the problem is my PS/2 mouse.

I could not run XFree86 -configure, it just gave me "fatal errors". Same
thing for xf86cfg.  Xconfigurator just downgrade me to X3.3.6 (it works fine
though). Then I add driver "sis" to  /etc/XF86Config-4.  Now, the 4.1.0 runs
1024x768 colordepth 16, but my Logitech PS/2 mouse just wouldn't point at
the correct position.

The mouse works fine under X3.3.6, but when I started X 4.1.0, the small "x"
pointer is down there at the bottom of the screen. When KDE running, on top
of the screen, the pointer works almost correctly.  But in the middle of the
screen, I have to point the pointer about 1 inch below the object.  As I go
down to the bottom of the screen, the difference seems more and more.

I tried option "ZAxisMapping" without luck.  Appreciate any helps. Tks!



------------------------------

From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Reference on security
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:01:06 +0200

In alt.os.linux Tarkan Erimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1-> You must convert all your file system to XFS, which have acl support
> built-in. And this

You _must_ not! ACL is a separate patch. You can apply it with or without
xfs.

> 2-> You can add acl support to ext2 file system via patches. You can find

As you say, so (1) is wrong.

>       all the patches you need, at this URL: http://acl.bestbits.at/

Peter

------------------------------

From: NorbertSchmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: tool to look at the logs
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:37:03 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi there,
I guess there is a tool that looks at the log files all day long and can
send me an e-mail when anything important happens. 
I bet there is a tool that can look at eg. the squid logfile and give me
information on who has been looking on certain URL's etc. 
My standard linux problem: I know these tools exist, but I don't know
what's there name thus can't find them.....

I hope you can help me


Norbert
-- 
Norbert Schmidt
Optische und elektronische Geraete Juelich
Rheingasse 8-10
53113 Bonn
Germany

Tel: +49 228 9838625
Fax: +49 228 631339

------------------------------

From: "Jaishni Govender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Creating Raw Devices
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:44:47 +0200

Hi everyone,

Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction.  I need info on
how to create raw devices as I am trying to install oracle parallel server
on RedHat 6.2.  I can't find any info or documentation on this.  any help
would be greatly appreciated.


Thanx
Jaishni



------------------------------

From: Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.ppp,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: PPP HOWTO Fubar
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:28 -0400

Robert Davies wrote:
 
> Felix Miata wrote:
 
> > Jonadab the Unsightly One wrote:

> >> Section 14, setting up the ppp connection manually...

> >> # pppd -d -detach /dev/ttySx 38400 &

> >> # The -d option turns on debugging - the ppp connection start
> >> # up conversation will be logged to your system log - which
> >> # is useful if you are having trouble.

> >> That line should be as follows:

> >> pppd -d detach defaultroute /dev/ttySx 38400 &

> > I'd like to know where the 38400 comes from. That looks to me like a
> > holdover from 9600 modem days. I also had to add noipdefault and user
> > username to make it work.
 
> I think you're right, why not submit an update to the LDP www.linuxdoc.org?

Maybe someday I'll actually understand this subject enough to do so. As
it is now and for the past two weeks since starting to try, I can't even
get the ppp-on script to work.
 
> There's been an article recently, on troubleshooting ppp, I think it's at
> O'Reilly Network, try searching for it.
 
Maybe you'd like to find what you're talking about and post the URL.
Google provided plenty hits using Reilly ppp troubleshooting, but none
that looked like they had Reilly as part of the URL.
-- 
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under
control.                Proverbs 29:11 NKJV

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.members.atlantic.net/

------------------------------

From: Robert Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reiserfs problems?I can't mount ..
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:17:02 +0100

VP wrote:

> I can't mount my  sdb7 reiserfs partition (I have there some importante
> files, my sources codes)

Go to linuxtoday.com and look at the changelog for -ac or 2.4.6-pre kernel, 
if you live on the bleeding edge, follow the news, and release notes.

Rob

> When I going to mount the partition the kernel(2.4.5) crash with this
> logs
> 
> ..Jun 12 23:12:32 zendo kernel: ReiserFS version 3.6.25
> ..ernel: reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 08:17) ...
> ..kernel: scsi0: ERROR on channel 0, id 1,\
>                 lun 0, CDB: 0x28 00 01 13 54 70 00 00 08 00
> .. kernel: Info fld=0x1135470, Current sd08:17: sns = f0  3
> ..  do kernel: ASC=11 ASCQ= 0
> .. kernel: Raw sense data:0xf0 0x00\
>  0x03 0x01 0x13 0x54 0x70 0x18 0x00 0x00 0x00\
> 0x00 0x11 0x00 0x00 0x80 0x00 0x35 0x00\
> 0x00 0x10 0x66 0x00 0x00 0x0c 0x6e 0x02 0x6c 0x00 0x6c 0x00 0x00
> .. o kernel:  I/O error: dev 08:17, sector 50256
> l: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer\
>     dereference at virtual address 00000034
> ..  kernel:  printing eip:
> .. kernel: c019843f
> .. kernel: *pde = 00000000
> ..Jun 12 23:13:51 xxx kernel: Oops: 0000
> ...Jun 12 23:13:51 xxx kernel: CPU:    0
> .. kernel: EIP:    0010:[journal_transaction_is_valid+15/416]
> .. kernel: EFLAGS: 00010282
> .. kernel: eax: 00000000   ebx: 00000000   ecx: dcffde40   edx: dcffde40
> 
> ..kernel: esi: db3f2000   edi: 0000188a   ebp: ddd14800   esp: d994de10
> ..kernel: ds: 0018   es: 0018   ss: 0018
> ..kernel: Process mount (pid: 589, stackpage=d994d000)
> ..ernel: Stack: 00000000 db3f2000 0000188a ddd14800\
>                        dcffde8c c0198db2 ddd14800 00000000\
> ..kernel:        d994de74 d994de78 00000817 0000188a\
>                       00001000 ddd14800 00000000 c032f720
> ...kernel:        00004000 00000001 00000001 db6ad000 00000014\
>          000016fb 3b26a22c 00: Call Trace: [journal_read+482/1056]\
>  [journal_init+678/832] [reiserfs_read_super+237/1040]\
>  [get_empty_super+76/416] [read_super+99/176]\
>  [get_sb_bdev+347/448] [error_code+52/60]
> .. kernel:        [do_mount+373/688]..
> 
>  Is a Hardware problem i try averything  with the reiserfs utilities ,
> but nothing ..
> Any hlep is apreciated
> 
> Thanks
> 
> V.P.


------------------------------

From: Juha Kervinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: hard drive mess !@!!
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:14:35 +0300

> A friend of mine gave me a an old PC that had W98 & Mandrake Linux on it.
> Well, ..... I wanted to fdisk both partitions & fomat the whole drive so
> that I could install RH 7.0 from scratch.
>
> Mistake 1:  Removed partitions (Non-Dos).
>
> Mistake 2:  Formatted HD.  Apparentely, it still had Mandrake somewhere on
> HD after formatting.  RH FIPS boot disk says that I can't partition "less
> that 12.??..?"  CD started working at first, but then locked up on me.
>
> My cdrom is reading W98 & ME, but not the RH Linux (from a book).  I want to
> TOTALLY wipe out my hard drive and then run just RH.
>
> I saw the light (no more Winblows).  Help!

I don't think you made any mistakes. It is relatively simple procedure to
install a RH system from scratch, no manual formatting or anything necessary.
Just boot the system from RH boot floppy or CD, and use fdisk or disk druid to
set up completely new partition tables, which will then be formatted in the
installation process. Bang - just one brand new Red Hat installation without
anything microsoft.

If your problem is that your CD-ROM drive is unable to read RH cds, you can try
to install from network (don't bother if your connection is anything less than
broadband... takes too much time.), you just have to answer couple of simple
questions about your network settings and enter the ftp site near you from
where the installation files are fetched from. (you can find the sites from
www.redhat.com mirrors page).

And if ftp installation is out of question, I recall that there were some bugs
in the RH7.0 installation which made it stuck. I recommend that you burn a set
of RedHat 7.1 CD's and try with them. After all, you want to be completely
up-to-date, don't you? =)

And if those new CDs cannot be read by your drive, try a different CD drive,
because some older ones just don't work with burned cds. If I undestood
correctly you got your cd from a book or something so most likely

1) this cd is faulty, scratched or dirty (try to clean it if it is)
2) your pc is unable to boot from cd, then you should create a new boot disk
with
the utilities from your CD (in the dosutils directory if you use windows) and
try with that. Broken floppies sometimes cause weird errors.

Hope this helps even a bit... feel free to ask more help from me if you're
still stuck...


Yours, Juha




------------------------------

From: "ne..." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Problems installing matrox card
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:24:12 GMT

On Jun 13, 2001 at 08:38, mike eloquently wrote:

>Everything seems to work ok up to the point where I install the video card.
>I have a Matrox Millenium G400 32M video card. After selecting this I try to
>test it and the screen goes black. I even try different modes and
>resolutions and even video cards to no avail. What am I doing wrong?
>
>System makeup.
>384M sdram
>20G seagate HD + 4G seagate HD
>Soundblaster pro (ISA)
>Acer 76c Monitor
>Matrox Millenium G400 32M
You left out all the stuff we need to know.
What version of X are you trying to install? What
distribution are you using?

-- 
Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org)
Lord, defend me from my friends; I can account for my enemies.
                -- Charles D'Hericault
  8:22am  up 2 days,  9:48,  8 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (H.Bruijn)
Subject: Re: Creating Raw Devices
Date: 13 Jun 2001 12:29:44 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:44:47 +0200, Jaishni Govender allegedly wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction.  I need info on
> how to create raw devices as I am trying to install oracle parallel server
> on RedHat 6.2.  I can't find any info or documentation on this.  any help
> would be greatly appreciated.

Devices are created with the mknod command. The manual page should have
information on syntax and such. "man mknod" or "info mknod"
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/device-list/ has a list over
"reserved" major and minor numbers the linux kernels uses. Most device
entries in /dev/ are associated with specific kernelmodules ("drivers")
So make sure that whatever device you need, your kernel has support for
it build-in or as a module.

/dev/MAKEDEV is a script that can be used to create a number of different 
standard devices, fi "/dev/MAKEDEV audio" will create all devices
required to support your soundcard. Usually quicker then doing things
manually with mknod. See also "man MAKEDEV" 

-- 
If a trainstation is the place where trains stop, what is a workstation?
========================================================================
Herman Bruijn                         website:   http://HermanBruijn.com
The Netherlands 

------------------------------

From: Stanislaw Flatto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.slackware
Subject: Thanks all Re: Mayday, mayday!
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:33:50 +1000

Thanks to all replies.
So that's my destiny: rm -rf Debian, and back to Slackware with frame
buffering on 800x600 32bpp.

Have fun all.

Stanislaw.
Slack user from Ulladulla.

Stanislaw Flatto wrote:

> To make it short.
> AGP video card Trident Blade 3D based on 9880 chip.
> Cannot be recognised by SVGA server in Slack 7.1, so had to resort to
> frame buffering, and have GUI.
> Went "potato" (Debian). Zilch?!
> Not even starting console screen when invoking vga=xyz in LILO.
>
> Advice please.
>
> Stanislaw.
>
> (Considering going back to S3, but maybe help can arrive before that)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux partitions

I have two questions about partitioning my system:

I have a 40Gb hard drive running Windows ME currently. I 
want to split it into 2x20Gb partitions.

1: When I get to the partitioning portion of the install (Disk 
Druid), do I need to reflect the Windows partition as the first 
partition (if so, what is the mount point, Device amd type)?

2: With a 20 Gb linux partition, how should I split up the Linux 
partitions (i.e. how many Mb for /, /usr, /home, etc) and which 
mount points do I need for a home system 
(i.e. /, /boot/, /usr, /home, /var, /opt, /tmp, and /usr/local)?

Thanks for any help.

Patrick

----
Posted on http://www.etin.com - the FREE public USENET portal on the Web
Complete SEARCHING, BROWSING, and POSTING of text and BINARY messages!

------------------------------

From: Riyaz Mansoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:30:53 +1000



hi ???

put the same protocol type in your new file as in your old. i hava 
_microsoft_ in my config file and it works.

if that does not work, run Xconfigurator and select different types of 
mouses, and see if _any_ type works. of cousrse you'll have manually put in 
to your XF*-4 file.

riyaz


??? wrote:

> I have a 4mb sis6326  running on RH7.1 /XFree 4.1.0 and driver "sis" works
> "fine" for me, however, the problem is my PS/2 mouse.
> 
> I could not run XFree86 -configure, it just gave me "fatal errors". Same
> thing for xf86cfg.  Xconfigurator just downgrade me to X3.3.6 (it works
> fine
> though). Then I add driver "sis" to  /etc/XF86Config-4.  Now, the 4.1.0
> runs 1024x768 colordepth 16, but my Logitech PS/2 mouse just wouldn't
> point at the correct position.
> 
> The mouse works fine under X3.3.6, but when I started X 4.1.0, the small
> "x" pointer is down there at the bottom of the screen. When KDE running,
> on top
> of the screen, the pointer works almost correctly.  But in the middle of
> the
> screen, I have to point the pointer about 1 inch below the object.  As I
> go down to the bottom of the screen, the difference seems more and more.
> 
> I tried option "ZAxisMapping" without luck.  Appreciate any helps. Tks!
> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JZ)
Subject: Re: RH 7.1: piece of garbage?
Date: 13 Jun 2001 06:35:12 -0700

That's why I removed RH 7.1 one hour after I installed it, now
slackware works cool in my laptop. Slackware is much better than RH, I
mean much much better.





"???" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<9g7a8i$bmt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> "JZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ?????
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Jun 12, 2001 at 07:20, JZ eloquently wrote:
> > >
> > > >I just installed RH 7.1 in my laptop,
> > Just hate RH.
> You hate RH and you installed RH7.1?? Why bother????
> 
> 
> > What a joke!

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (P.Ravialahan)
Crossposted-To: 
comp.os.linux.alpha,comp.os.linux.redhat,comp.hardware,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: RedHat v7.0 installation on Alpha 164LX
Date: 13 Jun 2001 06:40:20 -0700

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (P.Ravialahan) wrote in message 
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> recently I got to install RedHat Linux 7.0 on an AlphaPC with the
> configurations given at the end of this message
> 
> NONE of three installation modes are working out >>>
Is any one how to get rid of this problem???

> 
> 1)Installer gets crashed while loading the UI on GUI installation mode
> SRM console commamd used:  
> boot dqb0 -file /kernels/vmlinux.gz -flags "root=/dev/hda
> initrd=images/ramdisk.img"
> gives "Gdk: error"
> 
> 2) When I was trying to install by "Text mode" with the SRM console
> command as follows:
> boot dqb0 -file /kernels/vmlinux.24 -flags "root=/dev/hda
> initrd=images/ramdisk.img"
> during this process, installation went well for first two
> steps[Language selection, Locale settings,  ]
> on third step [installer source location--  Local
> CDRom/HardDisk/NFS/FTP-HTTP]
> It gives a message as follows "unable read Local CDROM......"
> 
> 3) while using the command
> boot dqb0 -file /kernels/vmlinux.j -flags "root=/dev/hda
> initrd=images/ramdisk.img"
> Its geting stucked in "uncompressing process" --- no error
> message/running process
> 
> Hardware configuration & SRM level used as follows:
> 
> SRM level:   5.8-1
> Graphics card: Fire GL 1000  ---- PCI
> Mother board: Alpha PC 164LX
> Processor: Digital Alpha 21164, 600 MHz
> Display: COMPAQ Presario V410 Model 304u
> HDD: Quantum FireBall LM A35  -----IDE 
> CD-ROM: Asus 50x   CD-S500/A  2.0H  ------IDE 
> Sound Card: Creative Labs sound Blaster 1.5, Pro 16  ---- ISA

------------------------------

From: Jesper Petersen <jesperp**Delete**@nork.auc.dk>
Crossposted-To: 
comp.os.linux.redhat,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Problems using RH 7.1 with SiS 530 Graphics Card
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:44:39 +0200

>I had similar problems, with my Sis 630 card (up to 32M shared memory). The manual
>comes along says it supports (1024x768 and up to 16M color), all kinds of efforts
>as described you have been taken, but X still won't work. 
>With WinME, I had it set up as 1024x768 w/ 32 bit color, A-ok. 
>Really tired.

I have a SiS 630 (up to 16MB memory) too and it works. Have a look at:
http://www.in.tum.de/~clemens/ipc-topnote-h.html I don't have the same
computer, just the same graphics card, and it works for me using his config
file (and altering it a bit).

Jesper

Here's my config file:
========#
# �� SaX generated XFree86 config file ��
# Copyright (c) 2000 SuSE GmbH Nuernberg, All rights reserved.
#
# Version: 4.0
# Contact: Marcus Schaefer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2000
#
# this file has been created from SaX version 4.0
# Please do not edit this file, changes may be lost the
# next time using SaX
#

Section "Files"
  ModulePath    "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
  RgbPath       "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
EndSection

Section "ServerFlags"
EndSection

Section "Module"
  Load          "type1"
  Load          "speedo"
  Load          "extmod"
  Load          "freetype"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
  Driver        "Keyboard"
  Identifier    "Keyboard[0]"
  Option        "Protocol"      "Standard"
  Option        "XkbLayout"     "dk"
  Option        "XkbModel"      "pc105"
  Option        "XkbRules"      "xfree86"
  Option        "XkbVariant"    "nodeadkeys"
EndSection



Section "InputDevice"
  Driver        "mouse"
  Identifier    "Mouse[1]"
  Option        "Device"        "/dev/psaux"
  Option        "InputFashion"  "Mouse"
  Option        "Protocol"      "IMPS/2"
  Option        "Buttons" "5"
  Option        "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
  HorizSync     30-32
  Identifier    "Monitor[0]"
  ModelName     "Unknown"
  VendorName    "Unknown"
  VertRefresh   50-62
  UseModes      "Modes[0]"
EndSection

Section "Modes"
  Identifier    "Modes[0]"
  Modeline      "1024x768" 66.24 1024 1064 1248 1360 768 783 790 829
EndSection

Section "Screen"
  DefaultDepth  16
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth       16
    Modes       "default" 
  EndSubSection
  Device        "Device[0]"
  Identifier    "Screen[0]"
  Monitor       "Monitor[0]"
EndSection

Section "Device"
  BoardName     "SIS630"
  BusID         "1:0:0"
  Driver        "fbdev"
  Identifier    "Device[0]"
  VendorName    "SiS"
EndSection


Section "ServerLayout"
  Identifier    "Layout[all]"
  InputDevice   "Keyboard[0]"   "CoreKeyboard"
  InputDevice   "Mouse[1]"      "CorePointer"
  Option        "Xinerama"      "off"
  Screen        "Screen[0]"
EndSection

#Section "DRI"
#  Group        "video"
#  Mode         0660
#EndSection



------------------------------

From: Jim Agnew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why is my sound card locking up my machine?
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:36:26 -0400

i've had problems with a sound card locking up my windows machine,
apparantely they have an IDE port on them, and it sometimes goes hog wild,
and captures the hard disk's irq line.  yanking the thing out and using it
for target practice solved my problem... ;-)

Jim

Rand Simberg wrote:

> I've got a new cm8338-based sound card that I'm trying to use in my
> RH6.2 system (running 2.2.19 of my own build).  After many travails
> (available in another thread in c.o.l.setup for those interested) I
> got the drivers installed.
>
> I can run 'modprobe cmpci' and it doesn't squawk, other than to tell
> me that my /etc/modules.conf is more recent than ../../modules.dep.
>
> I can load the mixer, and the CD player.  But when I try to actually
> make it make some kind of sound (e.g., esd from the command line), the
> system locks up instantly and has to be hard rebooted.
>
> I've looked at /proc/interrupts and /proc/ioports and see no conflicts
> of cmpci with anything else.  What other diagnostics can I do to see
> why sound attempts send the machine off to never-never land?
>
> --
> simberg.interglobal.org  * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
> interglobal space lines  * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org
>
> "Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
> Replace first . with @ and throw out the "@trash." to email me.
> Here's my email address for autospammers: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


------------------------------


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