But if we look at the bin Laden complaint against the US:

        - The US currently has a state of military occupation in
          KSA (Saudi Arabia). The US came when Iraq acted up, but they
          have not left.

        - bin Laden has problems with the KSA royal family. He, and
          many others too afraid to say so, would prefer a proper
          Islamic setup, perhaps like in Iran these days. However,
          the US is, effectively, supporting continued suppression of
          the Saudi peoples by their support of the royal family.

        - So, he wants the US out of KSA so the country can move forward.
          As long as the US stays, he feels it is a military occupation
          that does more to support the royal family than to deter Iraq
          or increase peace in the area. And, peace in KSA and the Gulf at
          the price of attacks at home?

In no way does this justify September 11th. But if the US would just
stay out of some problems, all might be better off. As to the concern over
oil, well, there are other sources than KSA. If an Islamic regime started
by cutting back on oil, then so be it. Conserve. It is possible.

I still agree with Keith that terrorism will not go away. There will
never be a time when everyone is content. So why go out of your way
to be a target?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:19:48 -0400
burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

| On September 17, 2001 03:30 am, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
| 
| >
| > I think the US has always done this. It is the 'correct and proper' part
| > that has been the problem.  What we consider to be so is not what everyone
| > considers to be so. The US would do much better to just stay out.
| > Do nothing. Let people complain about that. By not doing anything we do not
| > take sides. OK, through inaction, but if it is how the US always does
| > things, everyone will pretty much be treated the same. The world will go to
| > hell if the US sits back? There is another problem. Ego. The US just has to
| > accept the fact that they cannot make the world safe. To paraphrase Keith,
| > as long as there are humans, there will be those who cause problems.
| 
| 
| "Doing nothing is itself a course of action, but inevitably a bad one"
| 
| This isn't about going around fixing other people's problems. Terrorism 
| affects us all, directly. It has been a long festering sore. It's now erupted 
| into a putrid cancer that must be dealt with. I don't think free countries of 
| the world will tolerate this anymore. They have said "OK, this has gone too 
| far. We're pissed off and morally outraged. Now we're going to deal with 
| this."
| 
| To this end, I don't think 1939 Chamberlain appeasement or inactivity is 
| either practical or appropiate, given what has occurred.  In WWII some 
| countries capitulated politically to the Nazis. Others simply stood back and 
| allowed them to roll through their country to commit atrocities upon their 
| neighbours. They have since been struggling to downplay and expunge a part of 
| their history that they are not very proud of.  But the stigma will always 
| remain - when the time came to do the right thing, they did nothing.
| 
| Peace is a noble goal we all strive for. But not at ANY cost.... not when the 
| price is the diginity of a nation and the future security and well-being of 
| our children. There comes a time when good people must act.
| 
| How would you feel if you did nothing and next year one of your own children 
| were killed by these same terrorists?
| -- 
| burns
| _______________________________________________
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