RE: ASP vs. CF

[Ferguson, Ken]

I couldn't have said it better myself, and just to prove the previous statement, I didn't. That's it Billy, you win!!! You're replying just as late at night as I am, in much greater detail, and with more sagacity. I'm sad to say it looks like you are the bigger loser, although only marginally. J   I have used CF, PHP, ASP (leaded and unleaded) in a production environment and I could not agree more with your comments. Also, your call to learn a language alongside a product is precisely the kind of thing I mean when I suggested learning ArcIMS or some other major GIS software package. Master one of those and throw in a good solid knowledge of SQL, CF/ASP/PHP and some minor Java skills and you've really got a winning combination. I'm sure there are tons of equally effective combinations out there from industry to industry. The key is to find one or two and make a name for yourself while constantly adding to your breadth of knowledge.   On that note, I'm finally out of here.   Ferg     -----Original Message----- From: Billy Cravens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ASP vs. CF   I'm not going to touch on the obvious points - I'll cover what I consider some key points often missed.   CF is more of an integrated environment; ASP is basically a scripting front-end to working with objects (ADO, FileSystemObject, ASP intrinsic objects, etc).  Developing for each platform requires a slightly different mindset about how you build applications.    Learning ASP is more than just the application server (if you want to call it that).  At a bare minimum, you need to learn ActiveX development.  Think of it like learning CF but not knowing SQL or JavaScript.   I would strongly suggest learning .NET as opposed to ASP.  The most experienced .NET developers have only been at it a year, whereas you have 4 and 5 year (or more) ASP developers out there.  Not to mention that from a technical standpoint, ASP 2/3 is quite a kludge. You can't do anything without spaghetti code - whereas in .NET you can define all your logic in objects, and interface via controls, which are then in turn called by your display tier (.aspx pages).  Plus, the process of learning C# or VB.NET allows you to turn around and build desktop applications with a very minimal learning curve (you really can't say the same about CF, ASP, or PHP)   An additional recommendation would be to augment a "language" with a "product".  Something like Commerce Server, BizTalk, etc.  Or focus on a "technology" like Active Directory or XML-EDI.  Try to distinguish yourself from other "coders".  That's the beauty of .NET: Microsoft has really done a (good?) job of creating a product line, rather than independent, unrelated stand-alone products.   .NET hasn't caught on a lot, but it's not like what you learn today will get you a job in the next six months.  Base your decision upon your motivations: are you learning for the fun of it, or to enhance your marketability?  Like it or not, in 2 years, a significant amount of development will be in .NET.   On the other hand, it will take a year or so to really get good at any technology, and at that point, ASP 2/3 will be a 2 or 3 year old technology (in spite of the name, ASP.NET is quite a different beast than ASP 2/3)   Beware of the standard developer trap: As evidenced by companies like Microsoft, the quality of the technology doesn't necessarily drive the industry.  So avoid the "X technology sucks because ..." and look for the opportunities (whether it's a programmer's Holy Grail or the worst language on the face of the earth)   And I'll give my standard disclaimer.  It may seem odd than a CFUG board member would be such a .NET "advocate".  I like .NET - I've been working with it since before Beta 2.  I even had the fortune of being a technical reviewer on a handful of Wrox's .NET books.  I haven't used it in a "production" environment; I've been using CF instead, so I'm no expert on it.  I think CF is an excellent platform, as is .NET, and others.  If given the choice, I will develop every application in CF, however.  (select * from perfectWorld where reality = 'developer calls all the shots')   My mantra: Learn everything, recommend CF.   ************************** Billy Cravens Web and Software consulting www.Architechx.com   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of KNOWLTON, JUSTIN J (SWBT) Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:32 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: ASP vs. CF   Good Morning Everyone, I have a non-coding related question for the group.    What is the difference between coding in ASP and CF? ASP seems to be a very complex (though powerful) language while Cold Fusion seems to be able to do the same things with simpler code. Yet the majority of sites I see are in ASP.   I am about to start schooling to pick up another language and I am leaning towards JAVA but am not sure if it would also be in my best interest to learn ASP as well.   Thanks, Justin Knowlton SBC Communications -- LSC Web Team Alliance, TX