I'll also agree that the following statement on the link I posted is a bit vague in terms of legal obligation.
Sysadmins will remove messages only for serious privacy reasons; the current policy is that *all requests are rejected* (unless there is a court order or *equivalent legal obligation*, of course). In this case, the legal obligation from Ops standpoint is our legal department requested it. There may be actual legal standing for it, but I have no idea, I just trust our legal team to understand the details. On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Rob Halsell <[email protected]> wrote: > I've never been aware they had been halted, only that we have a fairly > high bar on what we remove from the lists. This is due to the many > concerns already raised on this thread, and in the past. They include (but > are not limited to) mailman routing downtime/delays, archive rebuilding > index changes, and the fact that once something is on the internet, its > never really gone. (Removal from archives doesn't mean removal from > archive mirrors or any actual emails.) While those concerns make the bar > quite high, they do not mean we simply don't remove data. > > If anyone is aware of documentation that states otherwise, please let me > know! The only documentation I am aware of is on wikitech: > https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailman#Remove_a_message_from_the_mailing_list_archives > & > https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archive > > Operations does not undergo list scrubs lightly, as it involves the > stopping of mail processing for lists, including rebuild time of affected > archives. In this case,the request was filtered through WMF legal and then > legal requested it from operations. This request was filtered by both the > legal department and operations management. > > I've requested that we delay the scrub until post Wikimania. I have not > received any feedback yet from legal regarding the timeline. I'll post > back to this list regarding the resolution of the schedule. > > I hope that helps clear things up! > > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Richard Ames <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yes.... we have been through this before and I thought resolved not to do >> it. >> >> It only draws attention to that which is 'scrubbed' as it still exists >> in many public places and invites the comparison of the still public >> source and the scrubbed source.... >> >> Richard. >> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hi Rob, >> > >> > I thought that privacy-related scrubs of mailing list archives had been >> > halted, given (1) the many problems that they have caused in the past >> and >> > (2) that once info is sent to a public list it is likely to be archived >> > publicly in places outside of WMF control and therefore the usefulness >> of >> > these wipes is doubtful. >> > >> > James, you and I have discussed this issue previously. Can you please >> > comment? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Pine >> > >> > On Jun 20, 2016 09:38, "Rob Halsell" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I already got a few messages pointing out that taking down the >> wikimania >> >> mailing list the week of folks traveling there may not be ideal for >> >> communication! >> >> >> >> I'm working with legal to see if I can push this request for scrub to >> next >> >> week. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Rob Halsell <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> List Admins, >> >>> >> >>> Please note that I'll be stopping mailman on 2016-06-21 from 16:00 to >> >>> 18:00 UTC for some privacy scrubbing of list archives. >> >>> >> >>> Unfortunately, mailman has to be stopped to prevent corruption during >> the >> >>> archive rebuild for the affected list(s). I hope not to use the full >> 2 hour >> >>> window, but cannot be certain. >> >>> >> >>> Once the work ends and mailman is restarted, all unsent/queued >> messages >> >>> will be processed for delivery. >> >>> >> >>> Work is documented on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138228 >> >>> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Rob Halsell >> >>> Operations Engineer >> >>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >> >>> E-Mail: [email protected] >> >>> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A >> >>> Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 >> >>> Fax: 415.882.0495 >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Rob Halsell >> >> Operations Engineer >> >> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >> >> E-Mail: [email protected] >> >> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A >> >> Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 >> >> Fax: 415.882.0495 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Listadmins mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Listadmins mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins >> > >> > > > > -- > Rob Halsell > Operations Engineer > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. > E-Mail: [email protected] > Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 > *0245 D22A*Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 > Fax: 415.882.0495 > > -- Rob Halsell Operations Engineer Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. E-Mail: [email protected] Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 *0245 D22A*Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 Fax: 415.882.0495
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