What about letting Legal, CA/SS and tech figure that out among themselves? Even with that 'policy' I imagine there are always exceptions possible (i.e. a court order). Maybe this is one of them. I do agree with Rob that it shouldn't be his job to figure out if this shouldbe one - legal is in a much better position to determine that.
Lodewijk 2016-06-20 23:39 GMT+02:00 Pine W <[email protected]>: > Hi Rob, > > The last time that we had major problems with a list scrub, that request > also came through Legal. It did not go well. My understanding is that > Community Advocacy (now Support and Safety) took the position that Legal > should not have requested a list scrub, and it would not happen again. I > think that Legal and Ops should consult with James before there is a change > of practice. > > Thanks, > Pine > > Pine > On Jun 20, 2016 13:11, "Rob Halsell" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I've never been aware they had been halted, only that we have a fairly >> high bar on what we remove from the lists. This is due to the many >> concerns already raised on this thread, and in the past. They include (but >> are not limited to) mailman routing downtime/delays, archive rebuilding >> index changes, and the fact that once something is on the internet, its >> never really gone. (Removal from archives doesn't mean removal from >> archive mirrors or any actual emails.) While those concerns make the bar >> quite high, they do not mean we simply don't remove data. >> >> If anyone is aware of documentation that states otherwise, please let me >> know! The only documentation I am aware of is on wikitech: >> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailman#Remove_a_message_from_the_mailing_list_archives >> & >> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archive >> >> Operations does not undergo list scrubs lightly, as it involves the >> stopping of mail processing for lists, including rebuild time of affected >> archives. In this case,the request was filtered through WMF legal and then >> legal requested it from operations. This request was filtered by both the >> legal department and operations management. >> >> I've requested that we delay the scrub until post Wikimania. I have not >> received any feedback yet from legal regarding the timeline. I'll post >> back to this list regarding the resolution of the schedule. >> >> I hope that helps clear things up! >> >> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Richard Ames <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Yes.... we have been through this before and I thought resolved not to >>> do it. >>> >>> It only draws attention to that which is 'scrubbed' as it still exists >>> in many public places and invites the comparison of the still public >>> source and the scrubbed source.... >>> >>> Richard. >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Hi Rob, >>> > >>> > I thought that privacy-related scrubs of mailing list archives had been >>> > halted, given (1) the many problems that they have caused in the past >>> and >>> > (2) that once info is sent to a public list it is likely to be archived >>> > publicly in places outside of WMF control and therefore the usefulness >>> of >>> > these wipes is doubtful. >>> > >>> > James, you and I have discussed this issue previously. Can you please >>> > comment? >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Pine >>> > >>> > On Jun 20, 2016 09:38, "Rob Halsell" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I already got a few messages pointing out that taking down the >>> wikimania >>> >> mailing list the week of folks traveling there may not be ideal for >>> >> communication! >>> >> >>> >> I'm working with legal to see if I can push this request for scrub to >>> next >>> >> week. >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Rob Halsell <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> List Admins, >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that I'll be stopping mailman on 2016-06-21 from 16:00 to >>> >>> 18:00 UTC for some privacy scrubbing of list archives. >>> >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately, mailman has to be stopped to prevent corruption >>> during the >>> >>> archive rebuild for the affected list(s). I hope not to use the >>> full 2 hour >>> >>> window, but cannot be certain. >>> >>> >>> >>> Once the work ends and mailman is restarted, all unsent/queued >>> messages >>> >>> will be processed for delivery. >>> >>> >>> >>> Work is documented on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138228 >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Rob Halsell >>> >>> Operations Engineer >>> >>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >>> >>> E-Mail: [email protected] >>> >>> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A >>> >>> Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 >>> >>> Fax: 415.882.0495 >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Rob Halsell >>> >> Operations Engineer >>> >> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >>> >> E-Mail: [email protected] >>> >> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 0245 D22A >>> >> Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 >>> >> Fax: 415.882.0495 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Listadmins mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Listadmins mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rob Halsell >> Operations Engineer >> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >> E-Mail: [email protected] >> Key fingerprint = CB1F C7E7 0FF8 5DB2 6820 9C7E 75ED 14C7 >> *0245 D22A*Office: 415.839.6885 x6620 >> Fax: 415.882.0495 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Listadmins mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Listadmins mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/listadmins > >
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