Tim Fine, I wouldn't say never use it, if that is the way you are inclined. However there is nothing it does that cannot be achieved by CSS in using border properties or background image properties. I really am one of those crackpots who does not believe in wasting a tag. If the tag does not impart meaning, I try not to use it. I actually once built a (albeit) small site without using <div> :0)
- Rob On 06/02/07, Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rob, I took Barney's point to be "if these people have ever swallowed their own medicine and then developed a site that satisfies anyone" OK! HR might be about markup not semantics and you have never had to use it, I am amazed that presentation has no importance at all and go back to Barney's comment. HR can also says how far above and below text will flow. It can end text after a floated element with clear:both. It is really useful for presentation for humans to divide information into sections. I don't give a rats if bots attach no meaning to it. Tim On 06/02/2007, at 9:38 PM, Rob Kirton wrote: > Barney > > I can't recall ever finding the need to use an <hr> and never normally > consider doing so. It is purely presentational, i.e. it draws a line > across a page, nothing more, nothing less. It conveys nothing about > what is above, below or indeed why indeed we have drawn a line. > > The major point of semantics is so that documents can be analysed by > search engines, allowing us to reference later and obtain information > (hopefully) with meaning. I realise HTML is never going to fully > satisfy that, though I can't see us all recording data as RDF tuples > full time in the near future. > > I suspect you will find that no meaning is ever attached to a <br> by > a search engine, the only meaning that is attached to it, is one which > has been made in the mind of the person who views the page, which is > purely presentational and has nothing whatsoever to do with semantics > . > > regards > > - Rob > > > On 06/02/07, Barney Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > The <section> actually carries semantic weight, and is meant to be >> > used carefully... the <div> does not. >> > >> > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod- >> structural.html#edef_structural_section >> > >> > Then again, XHTML 2 does have a <separator> element which is just >> like >> > <hr>... >> > >> > >> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod- >> structural.html#edef_structural_separator >> > >> > But you will notice that XHTML 2 has both <div> and <section>, and >> > <div> is weightless while <separator> is not. >> >> I am intrigued by this. There are those who believe HR is completely >> obsolete /on a semantic level/ because, as we all supposedly know, a >> document's semantic structure is divided entirely by headings. I would >> like to see if these people have ever swallowed their own medicine and >> then developed a site that satisfies anyone. >> >> Furthermore, surely these people should be horrified at the idea of >> sections and separators? >> >> Occasionally I get tempted to abide by these bizarre rules and create >> my >> heading minefield of a document that will satisfy these monsters when >> they switch to the ultimate view-source browsing experience, but use a >> display:none class to maintain readability by human beings with an >> existing culture of literature to consider. >> >> Regards, >> Barney >> >> >> ******************************************************************* >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> ******************************************************************* >> > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************
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