I assume cracking could occur in freezing climates or is it also an age thing. When a unit is pickled in an area prone to freezing will it freeze? What is cold weather winterizing procedure? Where can one purchase pickling supplies other than the $240 cruising kit? Bob PDQ 36 Peace
_____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Philip R. McGovern Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Watermaker Wow! Thanks, Rick. That's great information -- a lot more than I got from calling Katadyn. First, it takes about five minutes to get "pure" water from a watermaker. If it was pickled (biocide treatment), and hopefully it was, it has to run at least 20 minutes before good water is produced. Actually, we ran it for a couple of days. I think a big part of the problem was that the pre-filter cannister was nasty (and smelled nasty) and had the wrong kind of filter element in it (rubber instead of paper). Correct on replacing the seals to fix the leaks. Testing the membrane. To test for clogging, make water into a large measuring cup and time it. I think the 35 is 1.2 GPH. So if you run it for 20 minutes and you should get 51.2 fluid oz. Note that cold water will cut this down a bit, less than sea water will produce a little more. If, after running long enough to clear out biocide, etc., the water tests good, the membrane is not cracked. Good to know. Yes, it's rated at 1.20 gph and we'll do your suggested test as soon as we're back on the boat. (I didn't bring the hoses or pre-filter home.) It sounds like the membrane should be "fixable" unless it is cracked -- which I doubt. Probably our biggest problem is a lack of maintenance and they sell a $250 or so "cruising kit" that should allow us to fix that. If in fact the membrane is okay, I'd recommend getting the cleaning and biocide chemicals. I'd do both cleanings. If the output was low this should fix it up. Even if the output was okay, it wouldn't hurt to clean. Amen! Clean is good. Pickling. Note that the watermaker should be run daily. You can go for about 3 days in warm waters, 5 in cold water. If it's going to be idle for longer it really needs to be pickled. Knowing our PO, it may never have been pickled. Who really knows? A good idea is to run some product water into a container, then run it though just before shutdown. This cuts down on bacteria growth. Do you mean to run the product water back through the system? If so, I can see how that might help to flush the cooties out of the system. If not in clean offshore seawater, pick up another pre-filter from Home Depot and add it in with a 5 micron filter. The one that looks like it's made from wound string. Then you can make water pretty much anywhere, but the siltier the water, the more often you have to clean the pre-filters. About 30-bucks as compared to the $300 or so "Silty Water Kit". Would this Home Depot filter replace the pre-filter I now have or would I add it to the system. If I add it, I assume it would be upstream of the current pre-filter - sort of a pre-pre-filter. We don't plan to spend much time in silty water and would be using the watermaker either off shore or in places like the Bahamas where RO water can cost $0.50 per gallon and is a big PITA to fetch. Yiuck! Also, I didn't know that the pre-filters could be cleaned....I thought you just replaced the cartridges. Can they be "flushed" or is there a chemical involved? >I took the watermaker off the boat and brought it home, thinking I >would replace the seals and see about the membrane. I then >discovered that it is a 24 volt model and had been installed on a 12 >volt boat. Don't ask me why. From extensive experience with DC motors... The motor will run hotter at 12V, so that's probably why the tech said it won't last. DC motors really don't have a set voltage rating, but the lower the voltage the higher the losses and the higher the current for the same power output. At 12V the volume output of the pump should be less, but the current should be higher because it's the same load to get that 800 PSI. There are several ways to get 24V from 12V. Probably the easiest and cheapest is to just get an extra low cost battery and series it with your house bank for the watermaker. Like some folks do with a bow thruster. You can rig it with a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) switch to parallel it with your house bank to recharge when not in use. Email me direct if you need details. That sounds like the way to go. There is plenty of room for an extra battery or two in the compartmentI next to the watermaker and I could justify having an extra battery onboard in case one in the house bank craps out on us. In fact, would it make sense just to put two 6 volt golf cart batteries right next to the watermaker and re-charge them as needed with the Honda 2000? We would only be using the watermaker occassionally and I could remember to re-charge them after each use. Would I need four 6-volt batteries to get to the 24 volts needed? I'd like to stick with 6 volt batteries since that is what we currently (no pun) have in the house bank - six of them. If I do need four new batteries just for the watermaker, the cost wouldn't make sense. There are 12V to 24V DC to DC converters. Most are for commercial equipment and are expen$ive. I had a PUR 40 and recall it drew about 4.5A at 12V, so probably 2.25 to 2.5A at 24V, so I'd say you need one that's rated at least 4A to be safe. If you have an inverter, you may find a 24V power supply. Our build one with a 24V transformer and bridge rectifier. The problem with this is you're going to waste power with the inverter and power supply losses. Yes, we have an inverter, but I don't like to use it since, as you say, it draws an amp or two all by itself. You could also pick up 2 of the cheapest 6A battery chargers you can find and connect the outputs in series. Yes, this works. So, I'd plug the chargers into a nearby AC outlet and just run the pump directly off the chargers? That sounds too easy. Bottom line though is the extra battery and "charging" switch is really the simplest, cheapest and most efficient solution. I would agree, except that the house bank is probably 15' from the watermaker as the cable snakes and would take a long, heavy, expensive cable and, besides, there's not a good place to run it. That's why I hope I can set the new batteries right next to the watermaker. Another option is to rewind the motor. I used to do this a bunch ages ago, but I no longer have the equations. Maybe you could find a sharp electric motor shop that could do it. Not likely, here in Indiana. Not much DC around here. Feel free to email me direct if you have any questions or need a bit of help. Thanks, Rick. I'm going to go ahead put this on the forum in case it might help someone else. If we do get into any more detail, I'll spare the group and email you direct. Rick 'n' Cathy S/V Valkyrie http://www.morelr.com/valkyrie _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
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