Marce,
While I will agree with you that this post has to come to an end, I second
Ahmet, so would everybody else
If you had a previous experience of residing in a "Police State" as North
America has become like the old
Soviet Union "think what you want but do as you're told".
Yanni @
Pisces Marine
669 Third Line,
Oakville, ON.
L6L 4A9
www.piscesmarine.ca
[email protected]
905-827-2317
Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to
From: Marce Schulz
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How many international sailors with HF get
arestricted radio permit.
Can we just let this drop? I've been so delighted to have the list back and now
this flame war has gone on a little too long. Ahmet, several people explained
the George Orwell reference almost immediately, yet instead of accepting the
explanation and moving on, you feel the need to perpetuate imagined slights
based on your misconception. So you didn't read Animal Farm. Fine. But you know
now, because several people told you, that Ben was not calling police "pigs."
Could you please just drop this line of posting? Because you're still clinging
to a faulty assumption.
Thanks for considering it.
And to get back to liveaboard topics, we're considering selling the monohull
and buying a cat. Hands up, who's got one, what do you have and how do you like
it?
Marce
Still in Pittsburgh
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ahmet erkan
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How many international sailors with HF get a
restricted radio permit.
"Name like "Ahmet"... *and* in NYC, violating the law... obviously a damn
terrorist. Hmm, let's see: should I slam you down on the ground, cuff
you, and take you in - maybe breaking a few bones in the process and
adding a "resisting arrest" charge to justify it - or should I just
shoot you and claim that your muffler sounded like gunshots?"
Ben,
The police officer (if he had an exceptionally ugly personality) might "slam me
down, cuff me and break a few bones because of my name but not because of my
attitude. No matter how ugly the cops personality may be I do not think he will
shoot me because of my name. Unless of course If I were rambling on and on in a
"educated but unintelligently hostile" attitude similar to yours, plus the
noisy muffler, plus with the undesirable name Ahmet. Then I may become "Achmet
the dead terrorist". (Not from George Orwell but Jeff Dunham.)
BTW thank you for the lesson about George Orwell, I will research it when I
find the time and understand what is meant by "some pigs being more equal than
others". I still do not know and I do not care enough to go and read the book
right now. If I quoted a phrase from a well known or a not so well known
author, I would a add a sentence to explain the relevance, rather than
arrogantly boast my superior education.
Folks,
I am posting this reply not to continue the P... race with our charming Mr.
Okopnik but to steer the subject back to an area very important for boaters.
How to deal with persons that have bad attitudes or inferiority complexes if
these people have uniforms and guns and the law is on their side when they come
to board our boats and search our belongings, ask for paperwork regarding
issues that they really don't care about, and count the lifejackets when they
could care less if we drowned or not. (Never sure if it is could or couldn't
care less)
As usual Norm has the most practical answer. "Make their job easy for them".
What I might add is, at the start "Declare that the US coast guard boarding
party has the Captain's permission to come on board and the Coast Guard is
always welcome aboard your vessel" Have the registration readily available all
paid and current. Carry a DL or another picture ID but also a passport,
passports last for 10 years and not that expensive to renew. Have fresh flares,
right kind of fire extinguisher, and life jackets for everybody on board.
Operational running lights, fog horn, whatever they look for have it ready.
Hand them the list.
What do you do when they check and something fails? Fess up and say, something
to the effect "I have just become aware of this issue and I will resolve it as
soon as possible" and say it in the most professional way you can muster. My
Navy training comes very handy here. Like in Ron's example what if the cop is
not the stiff upper lip type and makes an off color joke like "you are lucky my
wife was good to me last night that is why you are not getting a ticket". Have
a sense of humor, even if the joke is sexist or unprofessional or whatever it
is sort of funny. Smile a little and tell him to make sure he lets his wife
know how grateful you are. Remember, you are not groveling or kissing up, you
are aware that he is playing a game with you because he knows you are not the
bad guy but he can inconvenience you if he wanted to due to the minor
infraction and you are acknowledging his power but you are not afraid of him
because you are glad he is there to enforce the laws. etc etc.
I would like to hear more people talk about their first hand experiences with
unreasonable cops or coast guard officers and how they handled or mishandled a
certain situation, and what would they do if the same thing happened again.
Fair Winds
Ahmet
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 22:56:55 -0400
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] How many international sailors with HF get a
> restricted radio permit.
>
> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 06:13:39PM -0400, ahmet erkan wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ben,
> > If I were the NYC police officer, and stopped you for your broken muffler
> > you
> > would have probably received a ticket and probably more because of the
> > infraction augmented by the attitude. Ron on the other hand may just get a
> > verbal warning. It is a human thing. Let me know if you can't figure it out?
>
> Ah, here we go off to fantasy land. Guess what I'd do to you if _I_ was
> an NY PO stopping you for a broken muffler - and I had *your* attitude?
>
> Name like "Ahmet"... *and* in NYC, violating the law... obviously a damn
> terrorist. Hmm, let's see: should I slam you down on the ground, cuff
> you, and take you in - maybe breaking a few bones in the process and
> adding a "resisting arrest" charge to justify it - or should I just
> shoot you and claim that your muffler sounded like gunshots?
>
> ...
>
> Better yet, let's avoid the "if I were" fantasies. Most people stop
> playing at those after kindergarten or so, because that kind of
> thinly-disguised hostility isn't likely to be well received. In fact,
> even in kindergarten, it's likely to be met with a real - as opposed to
> a verbal - punch in the nose. Let me know if you can't figure out the
> social dynamic here; I'll draw you a diagram.
>
> > Better yet ask Ron. Don't ask Norm!... Having said that, Norm probably
> > wouldnt
> > say anything deragotary to the "police officer" during the event but may
> > refer
> > to him as a "pig" just like you or give him some other disrespectful title
> > after the event.
>
> Just like me? Wow. You get an 'F' for reading comprehension, and another
> 'F' for ignorance. Nowhere in that email did I refer to a policeman as a
> pig - that was a reference to George Orwell's "Animal Farm", in which
> some pigs were indeed "more equal" than others.
>
> Perhaps you should consider asking someone to interpret for you before
> you go haring off to the keyboard to type out intemperate and
> misinformed responses? Just a thought.
>
>
> --
> OKOPNIK CONSULTING
> Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business
> Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming
> 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com
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