We can take a one step at a time approach too. There is only one interface in javax.security.auth.spi...
Gary On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > So what would this look like? Just stick all the interfaces in there? And > add more interfaces for things that are "public" and "supported"? > > Gary > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This is actually why I suggested making an spi package long ago in core >> for public classes that would remain BC. Sadly, it's a little late for that >> now. >> >> On 7 September 2016 at 23:22, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Okay. >>>> Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation? >>>> >>> >>> Please no, everything in Core is internal. I think we need to start with >>> English sentences before we get caught up on details of how to communicate >>> that to users. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially >>>> true in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns. >>>> >>>> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example >>>>> because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought >>>>> we had "agreed" on that. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's >>>>>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking >>>>>> BC. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. >>>>>> >>>>>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For >>>>>> example, NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better >>>>>> named INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) >>>>>> mentioned for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries >>>>>> we would make breaking changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain >>>>>>> compatibility with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their >>>>>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be at the top of my list. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>>>>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we >>>>>>>> should not break user code for no good reason. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What does this have to do with 1.2? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that would be good. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning >>>>>>>>> to see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used >>>>>>>>> surprisingly >>>>>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default >>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds >>>>>>>>> like. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this >>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming release, though. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> way. We can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma < >>>>>>>>>>>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with maintainers of another Apache project that one of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hesitate to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break >>>>>>>>>>>>>> binary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remko >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, if ever…. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> might very well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and at least >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 months. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory, you should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation has no point if there's no version with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> builders? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com <http://www.magine.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >> > > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
