Everything is internal, but as I said previously, there are things where we do want to try to maintain compatibility - plugins being one of them. Also as I said, we really need to document where anyone making customizations is at risk and where they aren’t.
Ralph > On Sep 7, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com > <mailto:remko.po...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Okay. > Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation? > > Please no, everything in Core is internal. I think we need to start with > English sentences before we get caught up on details of how to communicate > that to users. > > Gary > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com > <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially true >> in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns. >> >> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >> <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example because >> the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought we had >> "agreed" on that. >> >> Gary >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >> <mailto:remko.po...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's unavoidable. >> There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking BC. >> >> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. >> >> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example, >> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named INSTANCE, >> but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. >> >> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned for >> putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would make >> breaking changes. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >> <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>> <mailto:ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>> wrote: >>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain compatibility >>> with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their managers, Filters, >>> Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type would be at the top of my >>> list. >>> >>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> Ralph >>> >>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:remko.po...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should not >>>> break user code for no good reason. >>>> >>>> What does this have to do with 1.2? >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:remko.po...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> I think that would be good. >>>> >>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to see >>>> increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly often. >>>> Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for the >>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds like. >>>>> >>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>> >>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>>>> <mailto:ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>> wrote: >>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>> >>>>> Ralph >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this upcoming >>>>>> release, though. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>> <mailto:mikael.stal...@magine.com>> wrote: >>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the way. We can >>>>>> remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:remko.po...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation with >>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of the reasons they >>>>>> hesitate to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break binary >>>>>> compatibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them seems a bit >>>>>> harsh. >>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they actively >>>>>> prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Remko >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>>>>> <mailto:ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 years, if >>>>>>> ever…. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that might very >>>>>>> well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases and at least 6 >>>>>>> months. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the factory, you >>>>>>>> should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise, deprecation has >>>>>>>> no point if there's no version with the deprecation specified. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by builders? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | >>>>>>>> ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>> <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> >>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> >>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com <mailto:mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>> email. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | >>>>> ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>> <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> >>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> >>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | >>>> ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> >>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> >>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> >>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | >>> ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory> >> >> >> -- >> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | >> ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> >> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com <mailto:boa...@gmail.com>> > > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com <mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com> | > ggreg...@apache.org <mailto:ggreg...@apache.org> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/> > Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
