What about code in the Core util package? Gary
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: > Everything is internal, but as I said previously, there are things where > we do want to try to maintain compatibility - plugins being one of them. > Also as I said, we really need to document where anyone making > customizations is at risk and where they aren’t. > > Ralph > > On Sep 7, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Okay. >> Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation? >> > > Please no, everything in Core is internal. I think we need to start with > English sentences before we get caught up on details of how to communicate > that to users. > > Gary > > >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially >> true in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns. >> >> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example >>> because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought >>> we had "agreed" on that. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's >>>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking >>>> BC. >>>> >>>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. >>>> >>>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example, >>>> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named >>>> INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. >>>> >>>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned >>>> for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would >>>> make breaking changes. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain >>>>> compatibility with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their >>>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type would >>>>> be at the top of my list. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should >>>>>> not break user code for no good reason. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What does this have to do with 1.2? >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that would be good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to >>>>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly >>>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds >>>>>>> like. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme. >>>>>>>>> com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this >>>>>>>>>> upcoming release, though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the way. >>>>>>>>>>> We can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma < >>>>>>>>>>> remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation with >>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of the reasons they >>>>>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break binary >>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them >>>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh. >>>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they >>>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Remko >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 years, >>>>>>>>>>>> if ever…. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that >>>>>>>>>>>> might very well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases and >>>>>>>>>>>> at least >>>>>>>>>>>> 6 months. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the factory, >>>>>>>>>>>> you should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise, >>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation has no >>>>>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation specified. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by >>>>>>>>>>>>> builders? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > <ggreg...@apache.org> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > > -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
