Hey Denis, Do you have any specific information on how to integrate virtualGL etc. in to LTSP?
Thanks, Peter On 3/23/07, Cardon Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Robert and al. > > fat diskless setup have been around for already quite a while (see for > example the Solstice projet of the former Solunix startup > http://www.solunix.fr/solstice/principe.html warning : page in French). > This is indeed a great solution for multimedia apps compared to > --current-- state of the art LTSP. However, most of the limitation you > are mentioning are just minor technical issues. All of them can be > addressed with extension to current technologies, like network-optimized > pulseaudio, virtualGL, ltsp aware gstreamer framework etc. > > To my mind LTSP is here to stay for a long time. LTSP is not only a way > of cutting IT cost, it is also a part of a revolution of the computing > paradigm. Up to now people where using PCs, --Personal Computer--. > Personnaly I have not used a PC for quite a long time. I just use my > Personal Session (no place's better than $HOME :-). Whether I'm at work > or on the road, I'll be using LTSP or NX client to connect to my work > session. When I'm off duty, I'll be using LTSP or NX client to connect > to my home server. My personal environment follows me where I am. > > Fat diskless client makes this impossible. There are just a nowadays > solution for a nowadays problem. They are not the solution for the future. > > So I wouldn't say "LTSP future: local apps", I'd say "heavy multimedia > LTSP now: local apps". > > Cheers, > > Denis > > > I just got back from visiting Kamloops school district here in Canada. > > > > http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/ > > > > Their goal is to switch their entire district to Linux diskless > > clients and they are doing it. However, they are not using 100% LTSP. > > They use bits of ltsp to pxe boot their clients and mount / over nfs > > and they use NIS or LDAP for auth but they DO NOT use XDMCP or ssh to > > shoot the display over the network. Everything runs locally. Every new > > client is an AMD Sempron cpu with 512MB (easily powerful enough to run > > everything locally). The clients are almost the same price as many > > thin clients. About $250 CAD. They are actually using a modified > > Muekow ltsp implementation built in house inside a virtual private > > server > > http://linux-vserver.org/Welcome_to_Linux-VServer.org > > Kind of like a super chroot environ that requires a patched kernel. > > (Not a virtual machine like Xen or VMware) > > > > The clients are still diskless. But since everything runs locally > > there is no traditional problems associated with ltsp. Like having an > > entire classroom (30 clients) watch a full screen youtube video > > (flash). Or fullscreen quicktime/mpeg4 video (remember you are > > streaming [over nfs] the highly compressed video file in exchange for > > cpu power required to decompress it). Or have a Beryl 3D enabled > > student desktops. Or 30 kids playing GNU/Chess. Good luck doing these > > things with traditional thin client ltsp. I don't care if you have a > > dual Opteron, it's still going to fall to it's knees. The nfs server > > at Barriere Secondary serves the entire school: approx. 115 clients. > > Local devices like USB sticks: no problem, each client is running a > > full blown OS. No need for ltspfs. All clients run Xvnc so support for > > the district techs is a snap since they can fix things remotely. > > > > LTSP 5 has this ability as it uses the distro packages instead of it's > > own and is much easier to implement local apps. In my mind, this is > > the future of ltsp. Kamloops is just ahead of the curve because they > > realized that if their initiative was to be successful they didn't > > want any of the limitations of ltsp while still having the advantages. > > Clients are diskless centrally managed appliances. Plug it in and it > > works, advantages that ltsp has always had. > > > > Some may say apps take longer to load over nfs. This may be true but > > if you configure your network properly you can address this. Gigabit > > switch backbone. Port trunking. Another solution I like, use multiple > > gigabit nics in your nfs server on different subnets connected to > > separate switches as described here. > > http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/Technical:Subnetting > > Thereby, creating dedicated bandwidth for different parts of a school > > and preventing bottlenecks. > > > > In any case, once an app is loaded it's fast and if you happen to > > shutdown the app (say Firefox) and start it again the machine does not > > take nearly as long to launch it again because apps are cached locally > > in the memory of the client machine (remember the 512MB). > > > > The only down side is power consumption as compared to real thin > > clients. However, having said this I know that most people running > > ltsp are using old hardware as thin clients which are not energy > > efficient. However, I believe the advantages outweigh this issue > > especially when you have to compare them to stand alone Windows labs. > > Having said this, those AMD Semprons are actaully a pretty efficient > > cpu. > > > > Part of the reason local apps have not gained as much momentum in ltsp > > circles is that the raison d'etre of ltsp was that you didn't have to > > purchase new clients. Simply re-deploy existing old boxes (As I and > > many others have done) as thin clients. So after a few years and ltsp > > was seen as a viable solution people kept the "Run it on the server" > > ideology. Even though the price difference between new real thin > > clients and relatively powerful diskless clients has almost > > disappeared. > > > > My last point, the nfs servers in Kamloops are actually hybrid > > servers. They actaully have scripts to determine how powerful a client > > is at boot time then decide how many apps (all or some) will run > > locally. So the nfs server is also a traditional ltsp server. This, I > > believe, is a stop gap measure until all their clients are replaced > > with new ones. > > > > Here is the specs of the desktop systems they are using: > > Not sure who their supplier is but I checked the prices on the parts > > they are using on newegg > > > > Case ($40 USD ) > > Apex Supercase DM317 > > http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=4 > > > > Motherboard ($63 USD ) > > BioStar AM2 6100 Mainboard > > http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/board.php?name=GeForce%206100%20AM2 > > > > Processor (Actually the Sempron 3000+ is now $41 USD) > > AM2 Sempron 2800 > > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_11599_11604,00.html > > > > RAM ( $35 USD ) > > 512mb KINGSTON DDR-2 667 memory > > http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?root=&LinkBack=&ktcpartno=KVR667D2N5/512 > > > > ***For a grand total of $179 USD*** > > > > A couple of points: > > > > -The TX series cases, have some mini towers, although a little bigger > > than the DM series they are probably quieter because of the bigger > > PSU fan > > > > -There is a similar motherboard made by a division of asus called > > Asrock with some additional features as compared to the Biostar. > > Although Kamloops is not using this one since it's just released: > > http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=ALiveNF6G-DVI > > > > -parallel printer port > > -gigabit nic > > -dual independent video output with a DVI card > > > > It's selling for $69 USD (there are some reviews on newegg) and here > > is a linux compatibility review of it from last Dec. > > > > http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/showproduct.php/product/3686 > > > > Although nvidia has come out with newer binary drivers since then so > > *maybe* the pci id is no longer an issue. It's only $6 more than the > > Biostar and you can run 2 displays (as long as one monitor supports > > DVI) plus a gigabit nic. Well worth it in my opinion. > > > > > > > -- > Denis Cardon > Tranquil IT Systems > 10 rue du Docteur Bouchard > 49400 Saumur > http://www.tranquil-it-systems.fr > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _____________________________________________________________________ > Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss > For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _____________________________________________________________________ Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
