Vance,
Thanks for the warning! I'm no expert but believe the Berr not to be
an original 11 course based on it's size, and the fact that the neck can
only hold 9 courses, and has no tilt towards the bass which is a feature of
Ren lutes. The bridge is not well centered and extends way over to the bass
to accommodate the extra basses, because in the conversion the neck angle
was not changed. Even if it were an 11 course originally the bridge would
not be well centered, and could not handle 11 courses. The Berr in some way
has been over looked because it has been thought of as a Baroque lute.
I recently sent David Van Edwards photos of the internal sound board
bracing and He suggested that it looks like it was originally a 7 or 8
course lute.
After drawing the Berr I had no intention of ever making a 13 course
lute out of it, but am very happy it fits well into a 7 or 8 course lute,
then it makes sense. The Berr is a very elegant tear drop shape. If you
would like a photo reply off line.
All the best,
Michael Thames
Luthier
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Iconography (was:The Right Hand Revisited)
> Hi Michael:
>
> Interesting observation about this conversion. I trust your judgment and
> opinion on this issue as a builder. However you might want to brace
> yourself for an onslaught from one of the members of this list with whom I
> had a debate about a year ago over whether or not a seven course Lute
could
> be converted to a thirteen course Lute. It was his opinion that it could
> not, even though I sited the studies done by Lundberg that asserts that
this
> was a common practice. I guess the debate arose after someone new to the
> Lute asked whether or not this could be done, I said it could, he said it
> could not.
>
> Vance Wood.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "G.R. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Ed
> Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Iconography (was:The Right Hand Revisited)
>
>
> > Interesting concerning smaller lutes. This summer I was in Boston and
> drew
> > up plans of the Berr lute which has been converted to a 13 course
baroque
> > lute. However it is smaller than the Frei #34.
> > Stephen Barbber says it was converted from an 11 course to a 13
course,
> > which shows he devoted no time to seriously studying and analyzing the
> Berr,
> > which he claims to have done. It most certainly started it's life as a
7
> or
> > 8 course lute. I think it is a welcome addition to the pre Baroque
lutes.
> > Michael Thames
> > Luthier
> > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "G.R. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Iconography (was:The Right Hand Revisited)
> >
> >
> > > >that's why I downloaded Alfonso's collection, although it took ages
on
> my
> > > >old messerschmidt PC. (It's an old Siemens =])
> > >
> > > But at least those Messerschmidt PCs are nice and compact. :-)
> > >
> > > >What a good idea and fine collection Alfonso! Together with the
> pictures
> > > >McFeely's posted, it's excellent reference.
> > >
> > > Speaking of which, I couldn't figure out how to download McFeely's
> > > pictures in one swoop. Everything else is in PDF.
> > >
> > > >I thought I had a theory about all those impossible stretches you
> > sometimes
> > > >encounter in the 1500's repertoire, that perhaps those old masters
> played
> > on
> > > >"small lutes", what we today would call A-lutes, and that is why we
> have
> > > >such difficulties with doing justice to their music on today's 60 cm.
+
> > > >lutes?
> > > >
> > > >PS. Wish I had a teeny-weeny 6 or 7 course A-lute! Anyone who has
> > > >experienced one?
> > >
> > > I'm so glad you mentioned this. I just bought a WONDERFUL John
> > > Rollins alto lute with a string length of 51cm. That was precisely
> > > the thought that went through my mind as I read through stuff. It all
> > > made sense! Of course the pics, as far as I know in my shallow
> > > browsing, don't support the widespread use. In fact, sometimes they
> > > often have huge lutes, but there is a lot that doesn't make sense in
> > > the lute world and iconography. I hope others will chime in on this
> > > thread.
> > > cheers,
> > > --
> > > Ed Durbrow
> > > Saitama, Japan
> > > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
