Le 22 mai 08 =E0 00:09, David van Ooijen a ecrit :
>
> Anthony wrote:
>
>>>
> there seems to be no easy way out.
> I hope you understand that I am crying out for help over this issue.
> <<
>
> If you don't hear it, there's no use doing it. Then stay with ET.
> But if you want to learn to hear it, you have to start to listen.
> Begin with listening to a pure major third, it's on your lute:
> harmonics around the fourth fret. Compare to ET third. It's on your
> ET-fretted lute. Appreciate the difference. You like the pure third
> better? Set the fret so that you have a pure third. Once you've
> done that, there's no stopping. Forget the tuner, go for pure
> thirds, they're magic. It's like someone teaching you how to
> appreciate good wine, or proper food. There's no going back. You
> will have to learn with the compromises, but pure thirds wil make
> up for those.
David
I didn't say I didn't hear it. Indeed, at one time my student lute
was set up by Mathias Durvie with slight grooving to allow the player
to slide the frets from eq to one form of meantone (no tastini or
double frets however). I could easily hear the difference. This
seemed to be his standard practice, as I certainly did not ask for
it. Strangely, I have never noticed this on any other lutes. Now, I
have just began, mistakenly, perhaps, to think that such a pre-set-
up fretting system, only achieves a small potential of meantone
temperament, and one might also want to subtly change the set-up
according to the tonality of each piece.
Not so long ago, seeing that Petersen offered pre-sets, I thought
back to Mathias' set-up and assumed that it WAS possible to use the
tuner for setting up one's lute, in a certain number of satisfactory
different temperaments, but then on seeing Charles Besnaiou's
slanting frets, and other similar frettings sprinkled with Tastinis,
I began to think that tuning completely by ear was the only way to
go. However, I couldn't imagine doing this in the middle of a
concert, so I assume you need several lutes preset according to the
music played.
Perhaps a mix of both is possible?
Now, I suppose that it is possible to live with a lute set-up with
the presets of Petersen (with a result like that of the MD
prefretting), and no doubt in many ways it would be better than eq,
but I imagine only these subtle angled frets, tastinis, etc, allow
one to have the best of meantone without some of its problems, and
these can only partly be set by tuner, surely? Perhaps, it is
possible to acheive a rough setting with tuner presetting, and then
to fine tune by ear.
>
> David
>
> Hapy with the Turbo Tuner nonetheless: big help in difficult times.
> Yesterday J.S. and J. Chr. Bach and Scarlatti in ET, tomorrow Bach,
> de Fasch and Graupner in Silbermann. :-)
>
David, I am extremely happy with the Turbo Tuner. Although, I agree
with others that a tuning fork should be all I need to tune my lute,
or the principle of tuning the top string to near breaking point,
and then to tune all the rest by ear; but I find the Turbo Tuner is
far more accurate than my ear (although I can hear the result).
Perhaps that level of accuracy is inaudible on one pair of strings,
but I think that accuracy accumulates, and even a minute improvement
can become audible when it is carried over to all the strings.
Anyway, my lute sounds far better since I swapped from the Korg OT-12
(Detection accuracy:+/-1 cent), to the Turbo tuner (calibrated at the
factory to +/- 1ppm, that's a detection accuracy of .0017 cents).
Such a small difference should be inaudible to the ear, I would have
thought (sorry for what sounds like a stereo-typed advert). However,
globally I can hear the improvement.
There are only a few small niggles, but they are very minor. You do
need to get used to the rotating light system. At first it made me
dizzy, and I thought I would never be able stabilize it. You do not
see the progressive tune-up that can be observed easily on the Korg.
However, I was used to it within about a week, and I would not like
to go back to the Korg.
(I suppose a person whose brain functions are effected by strobe
lights, might use this device with caution. It is just a thought, and
I might be completely wrong here)
Tuning appears faster with the open string pre-set for a specific
instrument, I think. This seems particulary true for the gut basses.
However, there is a small problem with this. You can only use 440Hz
for the preset (I am not talking about temperaments, but open
strings). You can't programme in the desired notes and then programme
in a change of diapason, say from 440Hz to 392 Hz. You could,
however, calculate the equivalent note by subtracting two semitones
from each; but if you wish absolute accuracy, you might need to used
the fine adjust of =B150, as well.
Another way of obtaining this (according to Sonic Research), would be
to programme in the open strings, as if you wished to have a diapson
of 440Hz and then subtract 200 cents from all the notes using the Alt-
Flat keys. Adding two flats will lower all notes by 2 semitones. This
makes A4 392 Hz (391.995 Hz to be exact according to Sonic Research)
which seems close enough for most purposes, so long as everyone who
plays with you, follows suit.
Of coure you don't have to preset for open strings, you can just use
it on the chromatic tuner position, in which case you can change the
diapason to whatever you like, and programme in any temperament (up
to 12). I see you do use this David, even in concert, so it must
result in acceptable compromises. Perhaps, I am being over cautious
in my thoughts about using the tuner for this.
Regards
Anthony
PS, My amps are still in Mono, so I haven't been able to listen, in
an ideal situation, to your lute duos. Nevertheless, I have very much
enjoyed them, but now wonder why teachers are prone to have their
students begin with lute duos.
It strikes me this is a very hard enterprise. It seems difficult
enough to me to keep in time with myself, so how do you keep time
with your neighbour, particularly if he or she is using a measure of
improvisation.
Delightful music, David
>
> ****************************
> David van Ooijen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.davidvanooijen.nl
> ****************************
>
>
>
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