I apologize for the "inline" response.
I apologize for taking so long to respond. Please take any statement,
as a question.
Dear Alexander
Thanks once more for your second text. I still haven't
quite digested all the implications of the first, but have a few
questions and remarks about the loaded silk string hypothesis.
I understand that the way you have loaded your silk strings, using
agar-agar to "glue" copper powder onto a silk core, resembles the way
Mimmo loads his Venice (even if the gluing agent is different); while
in the traditional silk loading process, the silk absorbs the loading
material, but also expands (so maintains the same density)?
Density increases due to the loading material: copper's specific
gravity is about 6.5 times that of gut or silk (both at 1.3 with
copper at 8.9), lead's SG is 11.3, and mercury's 13.5 - over ten
times weight of gut or silk. Respectively the heavier metal will
offer the smallest diameter after loading.
"Even now I use two copper powder loaded silk strings on treble
gamba and one on eight course lute. All of them are made with
mixture of agar-agar and sea salt." Alexander
Is the agar-agar method attested anywhere (not that it would be a
problem if it wasn't, just for information)?
As i mentioned, my use of agar is in substitution for the animal
glues (bone, sinew, etc). The animal glues were the single most
used type of glues in Europe since ... the first animal was
consumed for food?
Are they true, I mean,
could you manage to make the loading spread evenly (as Mimmo finally
seems to have been able to do)? Are they fairly long lasting?
Basically, running over the string a loop of the needed diameter
while the string is being twisted, insures even loading. However,
personally i just allow the silk to absorb as much metal as it
wants. At a given temperature it absorbs "so much in this many
minutes". Longer time - more absorption, up to the certain limit.
I'm aware of one copper loaded silk string that i made 7 years ago,
that is still being used on a fidel. No signs of damage there. They
seem to wear as well as any other string.
According to the loinl in your message about loaded silk material,
apparently the material can become fragile due to loading.
http://ion.asu.edu/cool61_wtdsilk/cool61_thumb.htm
It either sounds as though the silk can't bear the weight of the
loading, or that the metal oxide cristals cut through the texture of
the silk.
I do not think that is an issue in a tightly twisted string, as the
mechanical damage happens in the filaments rubbing against each
other, while let's say, the silk pants are being worn. In the
string both the filaments and the metal particles move together.
If silk strings had been loaded in a way similar to yours (and not by
the direct method), I would tend to suppose gut-loading was the
original process (derived from leather dyeing), and that it may have
been transferred back to silk strings. In which case, silk would have
just been an alternative material for loading strings.
Again, if i leave silk filaments in a solution of any metallic salt
(or even in properly suspended metal pigment), it just absorbs.
Neither gut or raw leather will do so. So, silk does the absorption
naturally, leather or gut have to be forced or tricked into it.
This excludes your suggested sequence.
On the other hand, had it been possible to load by the direct method,
while using some chemical agent to prevent material expansion
(perhaps as the Chinese cloth dyers do), or by using a very dense
metal, then silk loading would perhaps have been the original loaded
string. I don't really have the knowledge to refine that question. I
agree that the fact that Mimmo's loaded strings work, could be an
argument in itself, but perhaps yours work equally well?
What sort of difference of sound is there between a silk and a gut
loaded, if you have been able to make such tests? Is the sustain for
example different?
Honestly, i just did not invest enough time in making loaded silk
strings. I am a musician, not a string maker, really. According to
my database, out of 4000 string operations (most long strings, then
cut into individual) about 100 are loaded strings. Obviously,
majority is an experiment of one sort or another, different
techniques and such. The strings loaded by metal salt absorption
offer a better sustain then the plain silk itself. More metal -more
sustain, i would hazard to say. I did not intentionally compare
with loaded gut, no.
The main question (before considering other historical points) is
whether you have succeed in raising the density of your silk diapason
sufficiently to make them thin enough to be in tune with their
octaves, and to reduce inharmonicity problem of thick pure gut bass;
thus making it possible string small Baroque lutes (Charles Mouton)
without resorting to wirewounds. That they should be able to pass
through the typical small historical bridge hole test, is just a
confirmation of this problematic, not an arbitrary hoop through which
modern string makers need to jump to prove their competence.
At one point i did aim for the bridge hole sizes specified by
Mimmo. I could not get enough weight from copper pigment for that,
but cinnabar (mercuric sulfate) seamed to offer about the right
diameters. I recall that cinnabar was used for about everything,
including coloring the drinks!.. and food.
The only "historicity" problem I find for the silk loaded basses, is
that Mace stated that Pistoy Basses seemed to be thick Venice Catline
Meanes.
"There is another sort of strings, which they call Pistoy basses,
which I conceive are none other than thick Venice-Catlins, which are
commonly dyed, with a deep dark red colour." Mace (the text is
ambiguous about which strings are red: Venice or Pistoy, or both?)
This seems to imply that they both looked quite similar. Could your
loaded silk string be confused with a thicker gut Meanes string (if
Venice are gut)?
I suppose with exterior loading, the core material might be less
obvious. Unless, of course the Catlines were also silk, as your
etymological exercise attempts to show, deriving it from "caterpillar
gut" (gut from the caterpillar?). Personally, I think etymology on a
single word is generally difficult to confirm, and when there are
equally plausible, or more plausible, alternatives, it would be quite
unsafe to conclude they were silk on such a weak basis, although I
saw you made no such claim (but more on this in the second part to my
reply).
There must be a better people to figure this out. What i can see
just from making silk strings is: the look, feel, sound of a silk
string can be exactly the same as a gut string. I had a curious
anecdote from Peter Rea about some violin players in Australia
using what they assumed to be old gut strings (from the 1950s), and
what turned out to be silk strings. His wife, a baroque violin
player, used those, and it took Peter's interest in silk strings to
figure this one out. There is not a chance John Dowland offered to
tell apart silk string from gut would be able to do so, unless
given the clues to look for. The etymology of Catlines being
related to gut, is no less curious, i think.
However, we do know from late sources (Terzi 1686,and Playford 1664),
that silk bass strings were used, but were they just introduced as a
core for demifilé, or already in use as a loaded alternative to gut?
What indication is there that earlier bass strings were silk? The
fact that gut WAS used primarily for wire loading does seem to
indicate that gut was the primary source for mid and bass strings.
It appears that understanding the history of silk in Europe is in its'
infancy. The first more comprehensive book "The Silk Industry of
Renaissance Venice" appeared in 2001! And this is about AN
INDUSTRY. The silk history as such is full of legends and
assumptions. Some of the very first arguments i heard six years
ago, on bringing up the possibility of early european silk strings
were - there was no silk widely available in Europe. Compare this
with a simple stub from Wiki today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
History_of_silk .
Gansar:
There is one string type (apart from catline) that might be a good
candidate for an early silk string, and that is Dowland's "Gansar".
According to Charles Besnainou this could be derived from French
"ganse", and if so, I notice that "ganse" is often silk.
Ganse can be a ribbon or braid
http://www.entreedesfournisseurs.fr/images/imgedf/RNB00401.jpg
ganse nf braided cord
but also a woven cord. This is the type of cord you often see around
the edge of cushions.
(However, it can also be a tressed cord).
http://www.deco-ameublement.com/img/upload/ganse-vue.jpg
It may come from Provencal ganso, which could be related to Greek
gampsos "curved up", or to Latin campsa "curve", from the verb
campsare "tourner" (apparently, it is not related to "gauze").
One possibility could thus be that the Gansar had a (silk) core
around which a silk ribbon type material was closely wrapped
(turned).
Again, from the practical, hands-on understanding: ganzar is
clearly related to a cord made from a dry filament material,
twisted or braided in one of the countless ways, may be with other
materials, including metals, then glued or pressed. Diderot's
encyclopedia has a very good description with illustrations of
machines used, of making ganza cords and belts, with heating and
glueing involved. Silk string of the high or middle range, on the
other hand, is cooked to uniformity. It appears smooth, like a
polished gut.
However, Charles Besnainou, who suggested this etymology to me,
himself makes a "gansar" string, but in a synthetic more gut-like
material, Influenced in this by African Kora harp strings, which seem
to have a ribbon of gut, or hide wound loosely around a central core.
You can just about make out this structure on the strings of this
Kora:
http://www.djembedirect.com/images/products/2300_3L.jpg
Charles string is more tightly wound, as you would expect from a
string that needs to be stopped. Unfortunately, I don't have a photo
of this.
Nevertheless, even if we accept the etymological argument, we see
that Charles concluded that it was the ribbon-like structure that was
the important indication, rather than the material out of which
"ganse" is most often made (silk).
Sure thing. May i call your attention to this picture: http://
www.globalissuesgroup.com/silkStrings/string4.jpg .This is one of
my treble gambas, all silk, with the top strings as you can see
smooth, and others made in a ganzar style. Kind of.
Three solutions for obtaining acceptably thin bass strings, according
to "trade":
1) The string maker (metal loaded), 2) the lute maker (12c extension)
I rather like the idea that the core of the loaded basses might have
remained stable in diameter (from 6c down) and that the loading
simply increased by steps as you move across to the lower basses, as
this would be similar to the logic of what I called the lute maker's
solution: the 12c lute, which can keep the same thickness of bass
string, but with a step-up of length. However, that is just my liking
for symmetry, and there is no reason why there might not have been
slight increases of string thickness along with the loading process.
3) the musician or string seller (demi-filé):
I have begun to see the demifilé option, as the musician's
solution to that same issue. Indeed, the first indication we have of
this process, gives the actual name of the inventor,
http://www.aquilacorde.com/catalogo11.htm
In the Hartlib Papers Project; Ephemerides: "Goretsky hath an
invention of lute strings covered with silver wyer, or strings which
make a most admirable musick. Mr Boyle. [...] String of guts done
about with silver wyer makes a very sweet musick, being of Goretsky's
invention" ( 1659 ).
Sorry, i'm not sure that this makes Mr. Goretsky the inventor of
demifilé. I learned in school that russians invented everything,
from the light bulb to the steam engine. I recall reading of the
13th century bow makers using the demi-file technique. It appears
to be a natural idea, not requiring a single inventor.
The fact that we have the inventor's name, makes me think that M.
Goretsky may not have been a string maker. He could have been a
string seller or a musician, if so, he would surely have wrapped a
wire round a pure dry gut string (or a silk core, if we believe
Playford, and these were the same strings, as the similar dates lead
me to believe). This would also explain the rather open publicity
about this string-type. String makers don't seem to be so
forthcoming.
(Some genealogical study of the name Goretsky, might come up with an
answer. Goretsky might have lived in England, as reference to this
string type first occurred there).
I believe a silk core can only be wrapped, and not interwoven, with a
wire.
It is only a believe. I have made a number (looks like about 200)
demifile silk strings, and most of them by taking a wire along with
a silk filaments bunch, and twisting everything together. After
cooking, the resulting string has wire imbedded in, allowing for a
quite smooth surface.
Here is a gold gimp, see how the wire turns round the silk:
http://www.needlenthread.com/Images/Miscellaneous/Goldwork/
Metal_Threads/Goldwork_Gimp_04.jpg
I know next to nothing about local Italian history, but the War of
the Mantuan Succession (1628–31) a peripheral part of the Thirty
Years' War, might have interrupted or hindered export of strings from
Pistoia, and following this there was the Italian Plague of 1629–
1631), so perhaps around the 1640-50 good bass strings became rare,
and string sellers, or musicians, were motivated to find a
replacement; but if so, by 1676, the date of Mace's
MUSICK'S MONUMENT, Pistoy strings seem to have returned, or become
easy to acquire (and Mace does not mention demi-filé).
However, against the "constant core, but step-up of length or
density" hypothesis, I rather doubt that demi-filé makes it possible
to keep the core at the same diameter, while just increasing the
thickness or the density of the wrapping.
Why not? I see in my database demifile c string with 400 filaments
and .12 mm wire, and G (forth lower) with the same number of
filaments and .2 mm wire, twisted tighter, wires being closer. Both
offered proper tension.
Alternative bass-types:
I do not want to ignore alternatives, such as Damian's High
torsion strings, and Charles Besnainou's toroidal spring twines of
which a little more in a second message including the etymology
question and "chatepelose", ‘hairy cat’" .
Regards
Anthony
I apologize for the rush. I did not attempt to be dismissive or
abrupt. alexander
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