Second attempt
Martyn, Sean, and Martin
I have double frets on my 11c lute, and have had them for more
than a year.
Stephen Gottlieb mentioned burnishing the first element of the double
fret, so it had presumably been slightly lowered (thus similar to
Sean's double single frets?).
There may have been slight clarity issues, at first, although I don't
recall that (well at first there was a slight problem with the loaded,
until I used higher tension octaves, so that might have hidden such a
problem) certainly at present the sound does not show the "uncleanness"
of a worn single, and there is still no sign of wear, whatsoever.
I am sure that would not have been so with single frets.
PARA
On the other hand the lowest frets do tend to slip, and the two
elements seem very thin, so I am not sure that stability is the main
advantage, although there has been no tendance for slip on the thicker
frets.
PARA
Stephen thought that double frets might give a slightly softer sound
(perhaps this is the same as Sean's "absorbs the high frequencies").
Again I can not say whether that is so, as I have never used the lute
with singles.
All in all I am very happy with them. It is such a relief just not to
having to change them so frequently.
I thank Sean and Martyn for encouraging me at the time to ask Stephen
to set my lute up like this.
It also pleased Stephen, I think to do so; although, I don't think it
was something for which he was frequently asked.
Regards
Anthony
PARA
---- Message d'origine ----
>De : "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>
>A : "Lute List" <[email protected]>;
> "Martin Shepherd" <[email protected]>
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: New frets
>Date : 19/02/2010 11:06:05 CET
>
>
> Martin
>
> As previously discussed, double frets (a single piece not two guts)
> need a bit of time to 'bed in'. The loop closest to the stopping
finger
> takes most of the wear whilst the other loop acts as the cut-off.
Thus
> double frets also last longer than single.
>
> rgds
>
> Martyn
> --- On Fri, 19/2/10, Martin Shepherd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> From: Martin Shepherd <[email protected]>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets
> To: "Lute List" <[email protected]>
> Date: Friday, 19 February, 2010, 8:04
>
> Hi Sean and all,
> Mindful of the fact that HIP frets should be double, in the late
1980s
> I had double frets on one of my lutes for some time. I found that I
> could flatten the strand nearest the nut slightly by rubbing it with
my
> thumbnail and this speeded up the process of wearing them in. I had
no
> trouble with unclear notes.
> I can't remember when or why, but eventually I went back to single
> frets. Then there was a discussion on this list about the virtues of
> double frets, including the idea that they gave a clearer and/or more
> sustained sound. So I was inspired to try them again (same lute) and
> had some trouble getting clear notes - only in one or two places, but
> it was enough to put me off. Perhaps I should have used Sean's
> double-single method (non-HIP) which allows you to have a thinner
fret
> on the nut side and would also make it easier to separate them if you
> wanted to go in for a bit of tastino!
> I was also attracted to the idea that double frets slip less and
might
> be more secure in terms of strings slipping sideways, because of the
> greater surface area in contact with the string. This was an
> especially attractive idea for playing slurred passages on the
> theorbo. When I refret the theorbo, I think I'll have to try it.
> It's also interesting that most players nowadays use huge frets
> (single) while the old guys (the Ambassadors painting, Dowland) used
> very thin (double) frets. Is there a connection?
> Best wishes,
> Martin
> Sean Smith wrote:
> >
> > Well, Dan, there's that special tomato knot that defies
comprehension
> standing between me and HIP in this case. Can you imagine doing that
w/
> those monster 1mm 1st and 2nd frets? Brrr.
> >
> > I don't know if anyone answered the question on how often to change
> frets but I remember Jacob Herringmann saying he swapped them all out
> before concerts. A lot of work tho I'm sure it gets easier as time
goes
> by. He uses singles as far as I've ever seen. But there is nothing
> quite as clean-sounding as a newly fretted instrument.
> >
> > Grant Tomlinson taught that we should have a good cradle for the
lute
> to work with changing frets and expect to take your time. Then he
> mentioned Jacob did it all sitting on the couch, lickety split. Me,
I'm
> an all afternoon kinda guy.
> >
> > Even new doubled frets at their best never quite sounded as clean
as
> singles --just my opinion and I'm sure there are pros who really have
> it down. Personally, I think the extended surface absorbs the high
> frequencies. Same goes for old single frets.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Daniel Winheld wrote:
> >
> >>> Do it twice!
> >>
> >> HEY! It's the SINGLE frets that ain't HIP - look at that damn
> picture
> >> again- (you know, the one with the boreless Oboe Muto) Is there
any
> >> known historical information about single frets? Maybe Mace
> mentioned
> >> them? Don't want to make trouble- just askin'....
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>> Honestly, it works though it doesn't seem HIP whatsoever. The
> >>> advantage being you only need to replace one half (always take
off
> >>> the more worn fret and replace it w/ a new one on the bridge
side).
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I've done the double fret experiment for a few years on
my
> >>> main ax. It has worked, I've learned a few things but I'm ready
to
> >>> come back to the single fret club.
> >>>
> >>> Sean
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >> [1][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
