Dear All,
As far as violins are concerned, I'm sure the reason we're still playing
instruments built in the 17th C (albeit now radically rebuilt) is that
since it first appeared in the 16th C, the violin has not only changed
little (it still has four strings, for instance) it has also been in
constant use. Lutes passed out of use altogether, so the only
instruments which survived were those which were valuable for
non-musical reasons such as being made of valuable materials (ivory,
ebony, etc) and/or were pretty enough that people wanted to hang them on
the wall as decoration. It's such a shame we don't have any surviving
lutes from before the middle of the 16th C.
Lutes are delicate, so even those which have been "restored" to playable
condition have had major surgery to achieve this state - the Rauwolf
lute owned by Jacob Lindberg being a good example.
The oldest lute I still own is my no.2 (7c, 67.3cm, with a yew back),
whose labels says "November 1982", so it's coming up to its 30th
birthday. I don't think it has changed much over the years, and (almost
uniquely) has never had a loose bar, so the soundboard has never been
lifted. If anything it seems to have got better through the years, as
seems to be usual with lutes. It has been well used (not thrashed) for
all of that time. I also have nos 3 (6c, 53.5cm, 1983) and 4 (6c, 60cm,
1985) and they are also in continuous use and seem to have if anything
improved with age. All three feature on my website soundfiles.
I'm optimistic that lutes being made now will have a long future ahead
of them, as long as people want to play them.
Best wishes,
Martin
On 22/04/2012 08:09, William Samson wrote:
I agree with most of the comments you make, Chris.
I have a couple of lutes that are between 30 and 40 years old - one of
them (with a Sitka spruce soundboard) sounded better when new and now
sounds quite harsh in comparison to its earlier state. The other one
(Swiss pine soundboard) has improved with age and although the bridge
had to be glued back on a few years ago, I find it is easier now to
produce a nice tone from it than when it was new. The caveat is, of
course, that all this is quite subjective and my technique has changed
radically over the past 40 years - from guitar technique with nails,
guitar technique without nails, pinky-down-thumb-inside technique, and
nowadays the thumb creeping outside and also playing closer to the
bridge to emulate how I think the old ones played their lutes in the
17th century.
Where I take issue, though, is that as far as I can tell Mace doesn't
advocate regular replacement of the soundboard. He does, however, give
instructions on how to carefully remove the soundboard, repair loose
bars, cracks etc, and glue it back down satisfactorily once repairs are
done.
I keep hearing stories of lutes, just a decade or two old, having their
soundboards replaced with brand new ones. I can't understand the
motivation behind this unless the old soundboard was made of very poor
wood or very badly made. Generally speaking, though, I find that the
older soundboards are made from better wood, with a tighter grain, than
is generally available nowadays. My gut feeling is that the tone and
response of the instrument is dominated by the soundboard, so replacing
a soundboard with a new one could radically alter the way the
instrument sounds. I wonder what seemingly irreparable soundboard
faults cause players to throw away the whole soundboard in exchange for
a new one?
Anyway, if you are thinking of replacing your soundboard, I'll happily
pay postage and packing expenses if you'll send your old one to me :)
Bill
From: Christopher Stetson<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2012, 2:59
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Why no active historical lutes?
Hi, everyone,
I've been waiting for one of the luthiers on the list to reply, but
since they haven't, I'll toss in that it's my understanding that the
physical forces of strings pulling on the glued-down bridges of
lutes,
which then torque the bridge against the very thin soundboard, are
quite different from those of strings pushing down on violin bridges,
which transmit the force downward onto the more robust, carved
soundboards, all of which results in lutes tending to come apart more
quickly than violins do. Also, I believe that in the opinion of
some,
at least, because of these different structures and forces, while
violins tend to sound better as they age, the sound quality of lutes
(and guitars with glued-down bridges) tends to deteriorate over time.
Perhaps some luthier list-members could confirm, deny, or nuance?
Doesn't Mace talk of having his soundboards replaced on a regular
basis?
Best to all, and keep playing.
Chris.
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Edward Mast<[1][1][email protected]>
wrote:
I think one or two may have survived un-modified (perhaps the
"Messiah"?). Also, Yo Yo Ma 'de-modified' one of his strad cellos
(I believe I've read this), reconfiguring it as a Baroque
instrument. (How much of a shame the modifications are depends
upon
who you're talking with, of course).
-Ned
On Apr 21, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Sam Chapman wrote:
> Just for the record, I don't think any of those Stradivarius
violins
> are in anything like their original condition. Which is a real
shame.
>
> All the best,
>
> Sam
>
> On 20 April 2012 20:23, Herbert Ward
<[2][2][email protected]>
wrote:
>>
>> According to Wikipedia, there are many Strativarius violins
>> in active use today:
>>
[3][3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stradivarius_instruments
>>
>> But I never hear of anyone playing a historical lute routinely.
>> In fact, it seems rare for anyone to even handle one.
>>
>> Is this because the thin soundboard becomes fragile with age?
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Chapman
> Oetlingerstrasse 65
> 4057 Basel
> (0041) 79 530 39 91
>
>
--
References
1. mailto:[5][email protected]
2. mailto:[6][email protected]
3. [7]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stradivarius_instruments
4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[email protected]
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stradivarius_instruments
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. mailto:[email protected]
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stradivarius_instruments
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
