There are many problems with the Platzer axe:
the neck-extension joint is way too deep, and the neck-bowl joint is
broken and cracking the soundboard.
It is obviously a PROP.
RT
On 2/4/2013 3:42 PM, William Samson wrote:
Thanks! Yes - there are many similarities, but the main pegbox in the
Platzer theorbo isn't bent back like the one in the Vignale painting.
Bill
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 19:47
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting
I'll try again:
[1]http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%204.html
Got to the painting by J.G. Platzer; an apparently non-offset theorbo
neck extension.
-----Original Message-----
From: William Samson <[2][email protected]>
To: David Van Edwards <[3][email protected]>
Cc: Lute List <[4][email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 1:53 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting
Hi David,
Looks like it's in the National Gallery of Ireland.
[1][5]http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Pri
nt_
Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx
Looking at this reproduction, there are a couple of misty wingtips as
if the guy who added the wings had changed his mind about where they
should be at some point.
The woman at the harpsichord has a halo (- later addition?). This
may
account for it's "St Cecilia" title. She looks very mature (and
happy) in comparison with other depictions of the saint. As you say,
the angels don't look particularly other-worldly.
Great fun, this speculation!
Bill
From: David Van Edwards <[6][email protected]>
To: William Samson <[7][email protected]>
Cc: Lute List <[8][email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 17:54
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute painting
Dear Bill,
Yes to all of that!
Meanwhile if we wonder about alterations, do you notice that you
can
see right through one of the wings to the windowframe behind?
Frankly
the wings look rather out of period and style when taken together
with
the secular detailed nature of the clothing. The nice touch of the
tuning hammer on the ironed cloth by the harpsichord also suggests
the
artist knew the other instrument too. It all looks very domestic,
not
quite how I imagine the angels behaving, and anyway where are the
wings
of the motherly soul playing harpsichord?
Do you happen to know where it lives at the moment?
Best wishes,
David
At 17:41 +0000 4/2/13, William Samson wrote:
Hi David and Roman,
Yes - The Rauwolf/Molinaer type what what first occurred to me,
but
the basses wouldn't be offset in that case. Another oddity is
the
very narrow, parallel-sided neck which wouldn't match Rauwolf (or
any other lute) either. And yet, to me, the body of the lute is
perfectly proportioned - Rose in the right place; bridge details
correct - suggesting that the artist knew his lutes. So why the
odd
neck?
I wonder if the painting was altered at some stage by another
artist? Maybe it was originally a big 7c or 8c instrument and
somebody decided to bring it 'up to date' with an extended neck
and
a load of diapasons.
Anyway - I very much doubt if we've hit upon a new, hitherto
unknown
lute type.
Best regards,
Bill
From: David Van Edwards <[2][9][email protected]>
To: William Samson <[3][10][email protected]>
Cc: Lute List <[4][11][email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013, 15:07
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Lute painting
Dear Bill,
I assume one of these.
[1][5][12]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
Sixtus Rauwolf Augsburg 1599 now in Copenhagen No. 93
This is the sole survivor of this type that Molenaer made famous.
But
your painting has the lower strings offset in in a strange,
rather
excessive, manner. Maybe a case of dodgy perspective rather than
distortion. But if the offset is genuine then the upper pegbox
must
be something other, and to me unknown.
Best wishes,
David
At 13:54 +0000 4/2/13, William Samson wrote:
> I wonder what the layout of the upper head of this lute
might
be?
>
>
[1][2][6][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
>
> Artist Jacopo Vignale, early 17th Century.
>
> Bill
>
> --
>
>References
>
> 1.
[3][7][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>[4][8][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: [5][9][16]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: [10][17]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1. [11][18]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
2. [12][19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
3. [13][20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
4. [14][21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. [15][22]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1.
[23]http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print
_Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx
2. mailto:[24][email protected]
3. mailto:[25][email protected]
4. mailto:[26][email protected]
5. [27]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
6. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
7. [29]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
8. [30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. [31]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
10. [32]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
11. [33]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
12. [34]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
13. [35]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
14. [36]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. [37]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
--
References
1. http://www.lutevoice.com/luteiconography/Page%204.html
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[email protected]
5. http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print_
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. mailto:[email protected]
8. mailto:[email protected]
9. mailto:[email protected]
10. mailto:[email protected]
11. mailto:[email protected]
12. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
17. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
18. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
22. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
23.
http://www.nationalgallery.ie/en/aboutus/Images_and_Licensing/Print_Sales/Music%20and%20Dance/Saint%20Cecilia.aspx
24. mailto:[email protected]
25. mailto:[email protected]
26. mailto:[email protected]
27. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
29. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
31. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
32. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
33. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/93.tif
34. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
35. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/icon/party-1.gif
36. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
37. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
