The longer this thread continues, the more I feel like I've gone back 45 years in a time machine. This is EXACTLY the situation I encountered as a young Classical guitar student at university all those years ago; and my love of the lute & early music only compounded the scorn & weirdness reaction. I had long forgotten that such cold, lifeless, unmusical souls are to be found in academe. Musicologists who smugly asked each other, "What instrument did you used to play?" Merely to be passionate about anything, but especially "Early" music as a living, breathing art form would promote the stupid, vapid bovine gaze & the "Why on earth would you want to do THAT?" No wonder I used to envy the Rock & Traditional musicians.

I really thought that world had changed- what a shock; but of course I stopped trying to be a hard core professional musician- either academic or worldly- years ago, and besides that I live in Berkeley- and whatever is wrong or lacking here is in another dimension entirely.

Dan

On 8/3/2013 2:33 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
    I think one of the other things keeping early music performance down in
    higher ed is that too often it is seen as an ancillary adjunct to
    musicology. Colleges are happy to employ musicology PhD's to teach
    music history, because the primary function of these faculty positions
    is not actually teaching, but doing research and publishing, which
    increases the academic prestige of the institution. (It's the same with
    music theory positions.) Unfortunately, the actual performance of "that
    old stuff" is perceived as an unnecessary, possibly even dangerous,
    formality. I suppose the keepers of the status quo believe it is better
    to present music history as an abstract subject so that students don't
    start thinking about how the way they play now is only the present
    manifestation of an ongoing historical continuum.
    This is real crime, especially in small colleges that only offer
    undergraduate performance or music ed degrees. Too often, these
    students graduate with the impression that history is a dry, irrelevant
    subject with no real application to actual music. Then they end up
    paying back their student loans by working at Walmart.

    Chris
    Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
    Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
    www.christopherwilke.com
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mark Seifert <[email protected]>
    To: Christopher Wilke <[email protected]>; gary <[email protected]>;
    lutelist <[email protected]>
    Cc:
    Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:45 AM
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
      Dear Chris Wilke,
      Your message resonates! It's true!  I'm sorry you haven't yet reached
      full career stride--maybe Nazareth College is too small though
      Rochester NY is a cultural powerhouse.
      I've seen with my own eyes the hostility/disdain in the faces of
    local
      classical music establishment folks, and initially thought it was
      because they knew I am an unworthy relatively unskilled dilettante.
      It may actually be due to the possibility that early music
      potentially has more popular appeal than their favored hackneyed 19th
      century (not yet fully tested by time) warhorses.  EM is simpler,
      more accessible to folks.  In 2007, a new local State Univ. music
    chair
      from Texas, concerned about the lack of lute exposure for his
    students,
      wanted me to play lute with a university singer.  Only one out of
      dozens of singers in his dept. expressed any interest at all, perhaps
      because she is from Vancouver, Canada.  After corresponding and
      planning with her for a year, we met at an event and she expressed
      disdain for "Early Music" and a preference for 19th/20th c. opera,
    and
      never followed up on the lute song idea, dashing my hopes (She was
    the
      prettiest woman in the dept.)  I suspect this could be the result of
      peer pressure against EM.  Herd instinct seems hugely important in
    the
      music world.  I hope it wasn't because I told her I was working on
      some pieces recently dug up at an ancestral Neanderthal cave
    dwelling.
      But the turf issue may go beyond this to the problem of the
    difficulty
      of plucked strings.  It seems Music Dept. chairs favor their own
      instruments and neglect/deemphasize others.  In one private
    University,
      the entire guitar program, which has the largest number of
      instrumental students in the entire music dept. (25 classic guitar
      students!), was ignored or given short shrift by the brass winds and
      voice loving directors when several outstanding student artists were
      selected for last June's gala event. Not a single guitar student was
      featured.  Maybe guitar plunking wasn't considered loud enough for
    the
      event.
      On another occasion years ago, a spectacular visiting guitar prof.
    from
      Humboldt State Univ. was initially refused the paltry 300 buck fee
      normally given for an hour-long recital.  The local guitar chief had
    to
      beg the music dept. chairman for this honorarium and remind the chair
      what an insult this denial would be to the visiting prof.  He got the
      fee after I embarrassed the chair by offering to pay for it myself as
    a
      local lute nut not directly connected with the University.
      One of the biggest parts of the music dept. at the local state Univ.
    is
      "symphonic band."  Sounds like an oxymoron.  No place for a guitar or
      lute.  Every high school has a marching band in football/violence
      crazed America, so there is a huge pool of flute, tuba, trumpet,
    drum,
      woodwind students from which to select new University matriculants.
    I
      was the only kid at my high school interested in classical guitar and
    I
      have heard of only rare high schools nowadays providing classic
    guitar
      instruction of any kind.  The big Univ where I chose to attend
    college
      had no guitar program at all--Instead I briefly sang in its Russian
      Liturgical Choir.  Gospodi!  Please help Chris and Hugo!
      Mark Seifert
      From: Christopher Wilke <[1][email protected]>
      To: gary <[2][email protected]>; lutelist <[3][email protected]>
      Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 7:12 AM
      Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
        In America, I haven't found any lack of interest in lute or early
      music
        from the broader public. Many people who are intimidated by
    perceived
        ritual and stuffy atmosphere of standard classical concerts are
    drawn
        in by the look and sound of early instruments. Some marketers have
        recognized this: early music is quite well represented in classical
        music station playlists. (I've just been invited to give a one hour
        interview/lute performance on our local public radio station here
    in
        Rochester, for example.) My own solo concerts and performances by
    the
        student early music ensembles I've directed have drawn healthy
      crowds.
        This is good, but there are larger issues.
        The problem is lack of support - if not outright hostility - from
    the
        "mainstream" classical music establishment. While my perception of
      what
        I and other early music performers do is that we play classical
      music,
        many, many "official" classical musicians do not share this
        view. Indeed, at colleges where I was employed, significant public
        response was ultimately detrimental as it drew the flagrant ire of
    at
        least two tenured professors with great influence in the
    departments.
        Both of these professors actively petitioned against having any
    early
        music performance activities at their respective colleges,
    ostensibly
        on the grounds that it distracted students from giving full
    attention
        to the "real" program of instruction. (One of the professors had
    the
        gaul to tell me to my face, "You're not a real ensemble because you
        don't play in parts." WTF? The majority of what we performed was
        renaissance polyphony!) I think they were afraid we were making
    them
        look bad. Concerts were not free to the public; box office receipts
        showed that we were bringing in actual revenue. And maybe, just
      maybe,
        my esteemed senior colleagues were jealous also of the fact that
        students were learning and having fun. Oh well, those professors
    are
        still there doing the same old thing and I am still struggling very
        much to find work years later. Good for them.
        Chris
        Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
        Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
        [1][4]http://www.christopherwilke.com/
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: gary <[2][5][email protected]>
        To: lutelist <[3][6][email protected]>
        Cc:
        Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 4:06 AM
        Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
        I got into early music 'cause I hate crowds. My jazz performances
      were
        attracting too many people. Of course, you heard about the lutenist
      who
        won the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with his
      winnings,
        he said, "I'm going to work 'til they run out." Early music, like
      jazz
        and chamber music, is a niche market. Upon being asked how one can
      make
        money in music, Henry Mancini said, "If you want to make money in
        music,
        go into band uniforms."
        Gary
        On 2013-08-02 05:17, [1][4][7][email protected] wrote:
        > I have done the same for a small baroque orchestra at the
      University
        > of Sao Paulo, USP,
        > with little gain as well. The  group has a lute and a theorbo in
      it.
        > Any hints are welcome.
        > We have thought everything from flash-mobs to pairing music with
        food,
        > theater, baroque dance, text, whatever...
        > So far our biggest hits have been opera and baroque dance, costly
        > events which we cannot do on a regular basis
        > due to budget size.
        > Ernesto Ett
        > 11-99 242120 4
        > 11-28376692
        >
        >
        >
        > On 31.07.2013, at 22:46, Bruno Correia
    <[2][5][8][email protected]>
        wrote:
        >
        >  Dear members of the list,
        >
        >  I have been at pains trying to raise interest in our beloved
        >  instrument down here in Brazil. I've given speeches, played solo
      and
        >  chamber concerts... but despite all efforts the general public
    and
        > also
        >  the musicians (professionals or amateurs) simply don't get
    turned
        on.
        >  It is a sad fact that the lute and the early music performance
        >  practice did not reach the University here. So we don't exist
        >  academically speaking.
        >
        >  Would anybody be willing to list some strategies that could be
      used
        > to
        >  help disseminate the lute and its repertoire?
        >  --
        >  Bruno Correia
        >
        >  Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
        >  historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
        >  Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
        >  Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.



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