Excellent summation, Rob. While your examples make perfect sense to me, I find that most people who manage to wrap their fingers around a lute come from a point of view that takes comfort in a re-creative art, stopping short of the total commitment it takes to go beyond making beautiful sounds on an expensive instrument. There is nothing wrong with the level of competence that time and opportunity permits but, as you point out, just not dropping the instrument is only the tip of the iceberg. To learn improvisation on an instrument as technically difficult as the lute requires study that goes far beyond just playing the original notes well. But we all know for certain that the surviving music that was written down is only a miniscule amount of the music that was played, and most historical players who attained a professional standard were also composers. The longer I'm in this game, the more I see very few completely dedicated professional players with the work ethic to become conversant in the language of historical lute music to the point where they might compose extempore. Excepting you and McFarlane. RA > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: robmackil...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music > Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 21:43:03 +0100 > To: praelu...@hotmail.com > > Lots of interesting comments from a few contributors. There seem to be a number of issues. > > 1. Original source material, for lute, baroque guitar, certainly, but other instruments too. All that must be looked at and absorbed as best as possible. > > 2. Stylistic details - what we do for Weiss we should probably not do for Robert de Visee. We have to be careful here, while at the same time expressing ourselves. > > 3. Decoration of given material, especially on repeats. Most of us would work this out in advance for a recording or important gig, but relatively free decoration should be explored at home. > > 4. Improvised composition. This could be a Prelude, for example, or an entirely new piece within a dance style, or an abstract style such as a fugue. It is here that Steve Herberman, I think, gives us ideas, albeit on a seven-string guitar, that we could explore on baroque lutes or arch lutes. I don't see this approach anywhere in the lute or baroque guitar literature, though I'd be happy to be pointed towards an original source which helps me play a fugue, for instance. There are moments in that video where Steve closes his eyes, and really improvises in two parts, in a baroque style. Let's be honest, there are not many of us who could do that on our lutes. > > 5. I guess my overall point is that there is no one book today (that I am aware of) that teaches baroque lute improvisation, or "live composition". Yet Bach, Weiss, de Visee, etc, probably improvised every day of their professional lives. I would like to see more of it, but also support materials for those who would like to give it a try. > > Thoughts? > > Rob > > www.robmackillop.net > > > On 1 Jul 2015, at 16:15, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Thanks for this, Rob. From my perspective gained through reading the > > sources (including Quantz, Rameau, CPE Bach), improvisation is not an > > extra - it's required. This has everything to do with the difference > > between the playing of a musician and the rote regurgitation of > > information written on the page. We all have different levels of > > abilities and understanding but, according my reading of the sources, > > it's all about convincing performances that capture the essence of the > > music. > > To my mind, the more closely spaced d-minor tuning seems to offer fewer > > opportunities for contrapuntal elaboration than does the old tuning. > > Strings tuned in fourths offer more possibilities than strings in > > thirds. Melodic decoration is just as easy in either tuning. > > As for improvisation in general, there is two really kinds: 1) > > ornamented divisions, and 2) harmonic extension and substitution. The > > cognoscenti always admire effect use of number 2. Dowland (1612) > > commented on number 1, with sharp words regarding blinde > > Division-making on the part of those ignorant in the science of music > > saying, "...let them remember that their skill lyeth not in their > > fingers endes...". > > I teach improvisation and always encourage the effective expression of > > intelligent musical ideas, giving a good result preference over which > > particular fingers are being used. > > Thanks again for broaching the topic, Rob. > > RA > >> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 13:49:20 +0100 > >> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >> From: robmackil...@gmail.com > >> Subject: [LUTE] Improvising Baroque Music > >> > >> I've long thought that there was something missing from the way most > > of > >> us learn to play baroque music, whether on lute or guitar. Some of us > >> have studied figured bass playing, it's something I particularly > >> enjoyed doing, though I haven't done any for years. But rarely do we > >> step beyond that practice, and I believe that only a very, very small > >> percentage of us are happy improvising baroque counterpoint in Dm > >> tuning. > >> > >> I was fascinated to learn that one of my jazz guitar heroes, Steve > >> Herberman, teaches a class online called Going For Baroque. You have > > to > >> buy the class, but an overview video is available: > >> > >> [1]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ > >> > >> It would be really interesting to transfer his approach to the Dm > > lute. > >> One would really get to know the instrument and tuning well, and > >> discover many contrapuntal finger movements which could be used in > >> improvising fugues or dance movements. > >> > >> I'd like to know your thoughts after watching the video. > >> > >> Rob MacKillop > >> > >> [2]www.robmackillop.net > >> > >> -- > >> > >> References > >> > >> 1. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ > >> 2. http://www.robmackillop.net/ > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > >
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