Dear Monica,
If we're both looking at the same piece and line (the third line), then
the preceding chord (to the chord with a Y sign) is marked as a
crotchet and with no dot after it ie not a dotted crotchet as you
suggest.
Perhaps you've misunderstood my code - sorry!. To avoid
misunderstanding here is the sequence for the third (and fourth ) line
again, but this time no code except for the / to indicate a bar
line. This pattern also fits with the typical sarabande form of the
period.
Crotchet, minim / dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet(NB weak) /
crotchet, minim / dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet(weak) //.
If, as you suggest, the first chord of the third line is a dotted
quaver (despite there being no dot associated with it), how do you
think the sequence proceeds for the remainder of the line? Please bear
in mind the distinctive weak third beat usually expected on the last
chord of a two bar phrase in these sarabandes.
Martyn
__________________________________________________________________
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: LutList <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 2 September 2016, 13:06
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
Sorry - I don't agree with you. You are ignoring the fact that the
preceding chord is a dotted crotchet. Look at any sarabande of the
period and I think you will see that the rhythm is more or less as I
describe it in my previous message.
Monica
----Original Message----
From: [1][email protected]
Date: 02/09/2016 10:13
To: "[2][email protected]"<[3][email protected]>,
"[4][email protected]"
<[5][email protected]>
Cc: "LutList"<[6][email protected]>
Subj: Re: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
Markus and Monica,
Looking at the phrasing of this piece ( and noting that sarabandes of
this period generally are in two regular bar phrases with the third
beat of the second being particularly weak), I'm inclined to think that
the Y (or V) sign indicates a chord twice the length of the usual
crotchet time, ie a minim.
So that the duration/lengths of chords in each line is as below with' I
' being a crotchet duration (also dotted where appropriate), 'T' being
a quaver, 'Y' being a minim and / representing the bar line. Direction
of strokes are as described earlier.
First and second lines have same four bar note values: I I I / I. T I /
I I I / I. T I //
Similarly the third and fourth have these:I Y / I. T I / I Y / I. T I
//
Sorry about the odd code - it was all I could think of!
Martyn
From: "[7][email protected]" <[8][email protected]>
To: [9][email protected]
Cc: LutList <[10][email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 2 September 2016, 9:52
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
Yes - I think that the "Y" or "V" sign represents a quaver or eighth
note but there is also a stroke mark after it it indicating that it is
an upward strum. It doesn't indicate an up stroke on its own.
The opening passage of the sarabande is
crotchet - crotchet - crotchet - dotted crotchet - quaver - crotchet
etc.....
D - U - D - D - U - D
This is the usual rhythmic pattern for the Sarabande.
Hope that makes sense.
Monica
----Original Message----
From: [11][email protected]
Date: 02/09/2016 0:12
To: "Lute List"<[12][email protected]>
Subj: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
Seems as if my first message hadn't come directly to the lute list,
except in Monicas reply down (I included the lute list with cc: ??):
One adding:
Possibly the Y (or sometimes V)-shaped -sign could mean a strum with
the
length of a half note, but I'm not sure about that, as there are no
bar
lines at all ...
Best regards
Markus
Am 01.09.2016 um 13:36 schrieb [13][email protected]:
> Yes - I think the rather florid looking x or slash at the top of the
> stave is a quaver or eighth note. Should complement the dotted
strokes.
> The small x is an appoggiatura or upper note trill.
> MOnica
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: [14][email protected]
> Date: 01/09/2016 9:07
> To: "[15][email protected]"<[16][email protected]>,
> <[17][email protected]>
> Cc: "LutList"<[18][email protected]>
> Subj: Re: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
>
> Probably the page is 62v - the numbering of the scans on the page is
> quite misleading.
>
> The x in this case probably mean an eigthth strum. That fits with
> understanding the |. as a punctated strum.
> In the manuscript there also seems to be a "x" for an appogiatura or
> mordent from above.
>
> Best regards
> Markus
>
>
> Am 01.09.2016 um 10:43 schrieb [19][email protected]:
>>
>> Can't actually access the page you have given. However I have a
copy
>> of the ms.
>>
>> The vertical dasshes below and above the highest line indicate the
>> strumming. Down from the line is a bass to treble stroke and up from
>> the line is a treble to bass stroke.
>> The open courses should be included in the chords provided that they
>> belong to the basic triad. They don't include the "As" unless this
> is
>> essential to make sense.
>> A dot after a stroke may indicate that it is a dotted note - but I
>> can't see which specific piece you are referring to.
>> An x is usually a descending appoggiatura from the note above.
>> Oblique dashes below the stave usually mean that the chord is to be
>> sustained.
>> If you can tell me the page number or the title of the specific
> pieces
>> I might be able to shed a bit more light.
>> BEst
>> Monica
>> ----Original Message----
>> From: [20][email protected]
>> Date: 01/09/2016 8:05
>> To: "Lute List"<[21][email protected]>
>> Subj: [LUTE] Re: Baroque guitar tablature
>>
>> I am hoping someone can help me understand some of the symbols on
> this
>> piece of Baroque guitar tablature - maybe Monica?
>> Here is a facsimile copy:
>>
[1][22]http://signtracks.com/facsimiles/Guitar/Baroque/Langhenhove/319_
page
>
>>
>> _0205.jpg
>> 1 ) Small vertical dashes above the first line: I understand this
> is
>> an
>> indication of strumming with the hand from the bottom up - or is
> it
>> the
>> other way?
>> 2) The dots after a vertical dash - like this "|." : is that a
>> dotted
>> (invisible) flag value -- or a bar line -- or?
>> 3) the 'x' - often following the dotted dash mentioned above: a
>> shake
>> or mordent??? If so it looks a little far away from its note...
>> 4) the 'y' that looks like the 'x' described above but more like
a
>> 'y'
>> (or a 'v') and bigger: ????
>> 5) Oblique dashes on the first and/or 5th line: no idea what
these
>> are...
>> I am also kind of wondering if open strings are not sort of
> implied
>> within a chord ...
>> Any help on any of the above appreciated. To me, it looks like
>> pretty
>> amazing short-hand from someone who knew the instrument extremely
>> well...
>> Alain
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1.
[23]http://signtracks.com/facsimiles/Guitar/Baroque/Langhenhove/319_pag
e_0205.jpg
>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Markus Lutz
SchulstraAe 11
88422 Bad Buchau
Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail [25][email protected]
--
References
1. mailto:[email protected]
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[email protected]
5. mailto:[email protected]
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. mailto:[email protected]
8. mailto:[email protected]
9. mailto:[email protected]
10. mailto:[email protected]
11. mailto:[email protected]
12. mailto:[email protected]
13. mailto:[email protected]
14. mailto:[email protected]
15. mailto:[email protected]
16. mailto:[email protected]
17. mailto:[email protected]
18. mailto:[email protected]
19. mailto:[email protected]
20. mailto:[email protected]
21. mailto:[email protected]
22. http://signtracks.com/facsimiles/Guitar/Baroque/Langhenhove/319_page
23.
http://signtracks.com/facsimiles/Guitar/Baroque/Langhenhove/319_page_0205.jpg
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. mailto:[email protected]
