Dear Stuart, Did you ever get round to looking at the Sonata Op 31 No5 for lute by Johann Nepomuk David - a reasonably well known composer between the wars and into the post-war period - I sent you several moons ago? It was originally published by Breitkopf & Hartel (cat no EB 5781) in 1947 so obviously they expected some following (and sales) even then. I've never heard it played! - perhaps it's not known by most modern lutenists... David's Wiki link here [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nepomuk_David The B&H link here [2]https://www.breitkopf.com/search?__clear=true&autor=David%2C%20Johan n%20Nepomuk&besetzungsrubrik=ZUPFINSTRUMENTE Note that on both these sites the two works by David which include lute (the other is a set of variations for recorder and lute of 1949) are listed, incorrectly, as being for guitar. This is down to later (c. 1970s) arrangements made by the guitarist Karl Scheit and also published by B&H in an arrangement for guitar. However the original publications (copies of which are in my possession) clearly identify 'Laute allein' and, indeed, the first page of the sonata in the earlier edition gives the composer's expected tuning: G c f a d g' (ie the old lute tuning and _not_ the guitar tuning). Indeed, it fits well on an instrument in this tuning - 'though I found it necessary to intabulate to play, since it is written in the single octave transposing treble clef - as employed for the modern guitar. regards and best wishes for 2018 Martyyn __________________________________________________________________
From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com> To: "Braig, Eugene" <brai...@osu.edu>; lutelist Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2017, 10:14 Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music I am an amateur player and I really enjoy encountering and playing contemporary music. Much of it, though, is off limits to all but virtuoso specialists like Peter Söderberg. At a recent Lute Society a leading British lutenist played a modern piece and he underlined several times that new music is good only if it's good music. As it turned out the piece was in contemporary conservative style - as if the 20th century had never happened. For me, there is a particular delight in playing, for example, a little 18th century piece for English guitar from the 1760s and then something more troubling and dark like this little piece by Karkoff from 1985: [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2uee48GlNA Stuart > Eugene > > -----Original Message----- > From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Wilke > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 8:11 PM > To: Dan Winheld; [6]r.turov...@gmail.com > Cc: Ron Andrico; Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net > Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music > > Epitaph is a great one. I nearly wrecked my wrist practicing the middle section of Crimson's aptly-named "Fracture" on baroque lute. Constantly running straight 16th notes at 120 without a single break for close to 4 minutes. Ouch! Hats off to Robert Fripp who composed and performed that beast in guitar tuning, on which it isn't any easier. Fripp now uses a "New Standard Tuning" of his own invention, but recorded this piece in standard tuning in the 1970's. (How's that for HIP? ;-) > > > Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > www.christopherwilke.com > > -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 12/26/17, <[7]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music > To: "Dan Winheld" <[8]dwinh...@lmi.net> > Cc: "Ron Andrico" <[9]praelu...@hotmail.com>, "Ido Shdaimah" <[10]ishdai...@gmail.com>, "lutelist Net" <[11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 3:11 PM > > King Crimson's Epitaph also works well! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan > Winheld <[12]dwinh...@lmi.net> > wrote: > > > > Excellent! There aren't nearly > enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute. Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's vocal range & style. > > > > > >> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman > Turovsky wrote: > >> I have a couple > of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that >> is an entirely different brow level! > >> RT > >> > >> On 12/25/2017 > 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > >> > >> Interesting that > you mention Taylor Swift and the lute. A sound >> engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and >> is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand >> performances. He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and >> very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest, >> direct, and convincing music. We're OK with that. > >> > >> RA > >> > __________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> From: [1][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2]<[14]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on >> behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<[15]r.turov...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM >> To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net >> Subject: [LUTE] > Re: New music > >> > >> If Taylor Swift > ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look >> for >> another >> instrument for myself. > >> Lute has been (at > least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that >> permeates the >> commercial mass culture. > >> Such reactions > are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash >> against mass production, >> and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields. > >> RT > >> On 12/25/2017 > 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote: > >> > > Interesting mail, Tristan. > >> > > While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute >> flourish in >> > > the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is >> actually >> > > in more popular types of music. > >> > > I think a few factors might block that though: > >> > > 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his >> videos (If >> > > I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and >> that >> > > fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people >> don't >> > > know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today. > >> > > 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or >> want to >> > > buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced >> Pakistani >> > > lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough, >> would >> > > do wonders to the lute world. > >> > > 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of >> the old >> > > music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for > example) > >> suddenly > >> > > started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would >> > > definitely see a large influx of new players. Having >> intabulations of >> > > popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to >> bring >> > > the instrument out of obscurity. > >> > > The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems >> of >> > > French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool >> (but >> > > obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and >> warm >> > > tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my >> opinion). > >> > > I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above >> problems. > >> > > On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann" > >> > > [4]<[1][16]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to >> > > explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music. > >> > > Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and >> more >> > > of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh >> no - >> > > back in the pundaemonium...) > >> > > 1. The audience for Early Music (even really early > music) is > >> bigger > >> > > than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik"). > >> > > Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general >> audience, >> > > you can always assume it is because of a great sense of >> traditional >> > > tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely >> > > popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences. > >> > > In Europe, there's Arvo PÃÃÃ'Ãâà ¤rt who left the path of atonality >> and >> > > serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well >> based in >> > > the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for >> > > example). > >> > > Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an >> even >> > > more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass > standpoint) > >> > > Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part >> of >> > > the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others >> have >> > > treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move: > >> > > By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of >> > > popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of >> time for >> > > a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version", >> > > establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more >> > > successful than others. > >> > > Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal >> piece >> > > of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really >> get >> > > what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me >> that >> > > though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles >> of >> > > special music do not represent the reality of most people. > >> > > Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly >> fantastic >> > > movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today, >> which >> > > is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real >> orchestra. > >> > > But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be >> > > ridiculed. > >> > > 2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is >> completely >> > > going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex >> or >> > > well set music of "non-classical new music", there > is: > >> > > a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and >> often >> > > deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music, >> embracing >> > > concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint, >> though >> > > often very fast paced. > >> > > b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to >> "New >> > > Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never >> > > reach. > >> > > Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will >> Sound", a >> > > chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic >> Music >> > > arrangements. > >> > > "Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting >> their >> > > foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New >> Music", >> > > while also playing Early Music (and everything in between). > >> They are > >> > > not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same >> concert, or >> > > have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for >> them. > >> > > Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar >> > > things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful >> crossovers >> > > seem rare. > >> > > c) Computer and Video game music. > >> > > The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to >> music >> > > composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the >> Tokyo >> > > Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda >> Medley. > >> > > These compositions are often surprisingly good and well >> arranged, >> > > because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no >> fear >> > > writing for a video game. > >> > > If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos >> of >> > > teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar, >> ukulele, >> > > etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own >> > > arrangements. > >> > > 3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly >> these >> > > purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing >> > > experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you >> copy >> > > your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music >> from >> > > friends etc. > >> > > Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost. > >> > > The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people, >> > > because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow >> > > brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's >> > > Medievalish cool. > >> > > A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its >> > > time. > >> > > I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the >> leader >> > > of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early >> music >> > > interpretations felt very engaging. > >> > > Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe. > >> > > This is the attitude at least I am looking for. > >> > > The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's >> Dowland >> > > or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs. > >> > > Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute, >> but >> > > with some percussion, this could be achieved. > >> > > And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with >> catchy >> > > kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love >> to >> > > play on the lute. > >> > > And the movie scores again. > >> > > 4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has >> taken >> > > Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially >> > > commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you >> had >> > > tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque >> guitars. > >> > > I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these >> instruments, >> > > as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani >> > > instruments. > >> > > Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't >> mind >> > > the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth DorÃÃÃ'Ãâà ©, which >> seems >> > > to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price. > >> > > If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these >> production >> > > methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge >> number >> > > of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real >> hand >> > > crafted master lute. These people might even try the original >> stuff, >> > > as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great >> > > popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces >> at >> > > hand in the internets. > >> > > 5. Conclusion: > >> > > I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early >> Music >> > > scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through >> the >> > > playing of popular music on the Lute. > >> > > Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a >> bit. > >> > > What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode >> on >> > > the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people >> will >> > > want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it >> on >> > > their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the >> lute >> > > might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there >> were >> > > no copyright issues back then... > >> > > This would have to be sorted out. > >> > > There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even >> > > "intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style. > >> > > Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all >> there. > >> > > Don't let guitarists be the only ones :) >> > > Here's some inspiration: > >> > > [2][5][17]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA > >> > > [3][6][18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?và ³h9jGSBVJo > >> > > [4][7][19]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ > >> > > [5][8][20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU > >> > > [6][9][21]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk > >> > > Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list. > >> > > >> > > Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico: > >> > > >> > > Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent > points: New music > >> for > >> > > the > >> > > lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to >> be a >> > > representative emblem of early music, and new music for the >> lute is >> > > not > >> > > taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding >> conservatory >> > > posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what >> defines >> > > early music. > >> > > I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching >> and >> > > digesting information describing the arc of the early music >> revival >> > > and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the >> apparent >> > > downward > >> > > spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival - >> unless the >> > > instrument somehow transcends the bounds of its >> associations with >> > > early music. New music for the lute may help the instrument >> > > survive, > >> > > but it will not happen without certain compromises. > >> > > I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year. > >> Watch > >> > > this > >> > > space. > >> > > RA > >> > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list > information at > [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at [23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [24]https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- References 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nepomuk_David 2. https://www.breitkopf.com/search?__clear=true&autor=David, Johann Nepomuk&besetzungsrubrik=ZUPFINSTRUMENTE 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2uee48GlNA 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 7. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 8. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 9. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 10. mailto:ishdai...@gmail.com 11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 13. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 15. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 16. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA 18. https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo 19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ 20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU 21. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk 22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 24. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
