Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Christopher Wilke
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 8:11 PM
To: Dan Winheld; [email protected]
Cc: Ron Andrico; Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
Epitaph is a great one. I nearly wrecked my wrist practicing the middle section of Crimson's
aptly-named "Fracture" on baroque lute. Constantly running straight 16th notes at 120
without a single break for close to 4 minutes. Ouch! Hats off to Robert Fripp who composed and
performed that beast in guitar tuning, on which it isn't any easier. Fripp now uses a "New
Standard Tuning" of his own invention, but recorded this piece in standard tuning in the
1970's. (How's that for HIP? ;-)
Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/26/17, <[email protected]> wrote:
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
To: "Dan Winheld" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Ron Andrico" <[email protected]>, "Ido Shdaimah" <[email protected]>,
"lutelist Net" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 3:11 PM
King Crimson’s Epitaph also works well!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan
Winheld <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Excellent! There aren't nearly
enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute. Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's
vocal range & style.
>
>
>> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman
Turovsky wrote:
>> I have a couple
of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that >> is an entirely
different brow level!
>> RT
>>
>> On 12/25/2017
1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
>>
>> Interesting that
you mention Taylor Swift and the lute. A sound >> engineer who twists knobs for her live shows
discovered our music and >> is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
>> performances. He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and >> very good at
his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest, >> direct, and convincing music. We're OK
with that.
>>
>> RA
>>
__________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: [1][email protected] [2]<[email protected]> on >> behalf of Roman
Turovsky [3]<[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM >> To: Ido
Shdaimah; lutelist Net >> Subject: [LUTE]
Re: New music
>>
>> If Taylor Swift
ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look >> for >> another
>> instrument for myself.
>> Lute has been (at
least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that >> permeates the >>
commercial mass culture.
>> Such reactions
are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash >> against mass
production, >> and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
>> RT
>> On 12/25/2017
8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
>> >
Interesting mail, Tristan.
>> >
While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute >> flourish in
>> >
the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is >> actually
>> >
in more popular types of music.
>> >
I think a few factors might block that though:
>> >
1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his >> videos (If
>> >
I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and >> that
>> >
fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people >> don't
>> >
know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
>> >
2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or >> want to
>> >
buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced >> Pakistani
>> >
lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough, >> would
>> >
do wonders to the lute world.
>> >
3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of >> the old
>> >
music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for
example)
>> suddenly
>> >
started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would >> >
definitely see a large influx of new players. Having >> intabulations of
>> >
popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to >> bring
>> >
the instrument out of obscurity.
>> >
The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems >> of >>
>
French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool >> (but
>> >
obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and >> warm
>> >
tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my >>
opinion).
>> >
I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above >> problems.
>> >
On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
>> >
[4]<[1][email protected]>
wrote:
>> >
>> >
This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to >> >
explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
>> >
Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and >> more
>> >
of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh >> no -
>> >
back in the pundaemonium...)
>> >
1. The audience for Early Music (even really early
music) is
>> bigger
>> >
than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
>> >
Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general >> audience,
>> >
you can always assume it is because of a great sense of >> traditional
>> >
tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely >> >
popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
>> >
In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality >> and
>> >
serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well >> based in
>> >
the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for >> >
example).
>> >
Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an >> even >>
>
more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass
standpoint)
>> >
Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part >> of >>
>
the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others >> have
>> >
treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
>> >
By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of >> >
popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of >> time for
>> >
a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version", >> >
establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more >> >
successful than others.
>> >
Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal >> piece
>> >
of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really >> get
>> >
what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me >> that
>> >
though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles >> of >>
>
special music do not represent the reality of most people.
>> >
Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly >> fantastic >>
>
movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today, >> which
>> >
is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real >>
orchestra.
>> >
But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be >> >
ridiculed.
>> >
2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is >> completely >>
>
going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex >> or >>
>
well set music of "non-classical new music", there
is:
>> >
a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and >> often >>
>
deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music, >> embracing
>> >
concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint, >> though >>
>
often very fast paced.
>> >
b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to >> "New >>
>
Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never >> >
reach.
>> >
Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will >> Sound", a
>> >
chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic >> Music
>> >
arrangements.
>> >
"Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting >> their >>
>
foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New >> Music", >>
>
while also playing Early Music (and everything in between).
>> They are
>> >
not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same >> concert, or
>> >
have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for >> them.
>> >
Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar >> >
things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful >> crossovers >>
>
seem rare.
>> >
c) Computer and Video game music.
>> >
The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to >> music
>> >
composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the >> Tokyo
>> >
Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda >> Medley.
>> >
These compositions are often surprisingly good and well >> arranged, >>
>
because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no >> fear >>
>
writing for a video game.
>> >
If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos >> of
>> >
teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar, >> ukulele,
>> >
etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own >> >
arrangements.
>> >
3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly >> these >>
>
purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing >> >
experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you >> copy >>
>
your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music >> from >>
>
friends etc.
>> >
Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost.
>> >
The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people, >> >
because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow >> >
brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's >> >
Medievalish cool.
>> >
A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its >> >
time.
>> >
I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the >> leader
>> >
of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early >> music
>> >
interpretations felt very engaging.
>> >
Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe.
>> >
This is the attitude at least I am looking for.
>> >
The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's >> Dowland
>> >
or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs.
>> >
Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute, >> but >>
>
with some percussion, this could be achieved.
>> >
And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with >> catchy
>> >
kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love >> to >>
>
play on the lute.
>> >
And the movie scores again.
>> >
4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has >> taken
>> >
Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially >> >
commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you >> had
>> >
tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque >> guitars.
>> >
I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these >> instruments,
>> >
as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani >> >
instruments.
>> >
Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't >> mind
>> >
the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth Doré, which >> seems
>> >
to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price.
>> >
If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these >> production
>> >
methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge >> number
>> >
of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real >> hand
>> >
crafted master lute. These people might even try the original >> stuff,
>> >
as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great >> >
popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces >> at >>
>
hand in the internets.
>> >
5. Conclusion:
>> >
I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early >> Music >>
>
scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through >> the
>> >
playing of popular music on the Lute.
>> >
Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a >>
bit.
>> >
What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode >> on
>> >
the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people >> will
>> >
want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it >> on >>
>
their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the >> lute
>> >
might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there >> were
>> >
no copyright issues back then...
>> >
This would have to be sorted out.
>> >
There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even >> >
"intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style.
>> >
Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all >>
there.
>> >
Don't let guitarists be the only ones :) >> >
Here's some inspiration:
>> >
[2][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
>> >
[3][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
>> >
[4][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
>> >
[5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
>> >
[6][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
>> >
Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list.
>> >
>> >
Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico:
>> >
>> >
Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent
points: New music
>> for
>> >
the
>> >
lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to >> be a
>> >
representative emblem of early music, and new music for the >> lute is
>> >
not
>> >
taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding >> conservatory
>> >
posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what >> defines
>> >
early music.
>> >
I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching >> and >>
>
digesting information describing the arc of the early music >> revival
>> >
and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the >> apparent >>
>
downward
>> >
spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival - >> unless the
>> >
instrument somehow transcends the bounds of its >> associations with
>> >
early music. New music for the lute may help the instrument >> >
survive,
>> >
but it will not happen without certain compromises.
>> >
I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year.
>> Watch
>> >
this
>> >
space.
>> >
RA
>>
>
>
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