Pat’s wonderful arrangements were fully intabulated.
> On Dec 26, 2017, at 3:34 PM, guy_and_liz Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've been playing a fair amount of jazz lately (on trombone, not lute, but
> that's another story). Jazz charts are conceptually similar to figured base;
> the details are different, but it's the same basic idea. Shouldn't be any
> harder to play from a chart with lute than it is with guitar, and there are
> tons of charts available.
>
> At LSA seminars past, I've heard both Pat O'Brien and Paul O'Dette play jazz
> standards on Baroque instruments and it sounded great (especially with Ellen
> Hargis vocals). That said, I'm not sure if they were working from a chart or
> had transcribed the pieces.
>
> Guy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:12 PM
> To: Dan Winheld
> Cc: Ron Andrico; Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
>
> King Crimson’s Epitaph also works well!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan Winheld <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Excellent! There aren't nearly enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute.
>> Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's vocal range & style.
>>
>>
>>> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>>> I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that
>>> is an entirely different brow level!
>>> RT
>>>
>>> On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute. A sound
>>> engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and
>>> is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
>>> performances. He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and
>>> very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest,
>>> direct, and convincing music. We're OK with that.
>>>
>>> RA
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> From: [1][email protected] [2]<[email protected]> on
>>> behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM
>>> To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
>>>
>>> If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look
>>> for
>>> another
>>> instrument for myself.
>>> Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that
>>> permeates the
>>> commercial mass culture.
>>> Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash
>>> against mass production,
>>> and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
>>> RT
>>> On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
>>>> Interesting mail, Tristan.
>>>> While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute
>>> flourish in
>>>> the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is
>>> actually
>>>> in more popular types of music.
>>>> I think a few factors might block that though:
>>>> 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his
>>> videos (If
>>>> I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and
>>> that
>>>> fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people
>>> don't
>>>> know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
>>>> 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or
>>> want to
>>>> buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced
>>> Pakistani
>>>> lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough,
>>> would
>>>> do wonders to the lute world.
>>>> 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of
>>> the old
>>>> music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example)
>>> suddenly
>>>> started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
>>>> definitely see a large influx of new players. Having
>>> intabulations of
>>>> popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to
>>> bring
>>>> the instrument out of obscurity.
>>>> The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems
>>> of
>>>> French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool
>>> (but
>>>> obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and
>>> warm
>>>> tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my
>>> opinion).
>>>> I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above
>>> problems.
>>>> On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
>>>> [4]<[1][email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
>>>> explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
>>>> Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and
>>> more
>>>> of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh
>>> no -
>>>> back in the pundaemonium...)
>>>> 1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is
>>> bigger
>>>> than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
>>>> Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general
>>> audience,
>>>> you can always assume it is because of a great sense of
>>> traditional
>>>> tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely
>>>> popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
>>>> In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality
>>> and
>>>> serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well
>>> based in
>>>> the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for
>>>> example).
>>>> Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an
>>> even
>>>> more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint)
>>>> Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part
>>> of
>>>> the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others
>>> have
>>>> treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
>>>> By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of
>>>> popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of
>>> time for
>>>> a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version",
>>>> establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more
>>>> successful than others.
>>>> Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal
>>> piece
>>>> of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really
>>> get
>>>> what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me
>>> that
>>>> though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles
>>> of
>>>> special music do not represent the reality of most people.
>>>> Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly
>>> fantastic
>>>> movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today,
>>> which
>>>> is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real
>>> orchestra.
>>>> But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be
>>>> ridiculed.
>>>> 2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is
>>> completely
>>>> going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex
>>> or
>>>> well set music of "non-classical new music", there is:
>>>> a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and
>>> often
>>>> deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music,
>>> embracing
>>>> concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint,
>>> though
>>>> often very fast paced.
>>>> b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to
>>> "New
>>>> Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never
>>>> reach.
>>>> Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will
>>> Sound", a
>>>> chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic
>>> Music
>>>> arrangements.
>>>> "Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting
>>> their
>>>> foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New
>>> Music",
>>>> while also playing Early Music (and everything in between).
>>> They are
>>>> not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same
>>> concert, or
>>>> have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for
>>> them.
>>>> Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar
>>>> things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful
>>> crossovers
>>>> seem rare.
>>>> c) Computer and Video game music.
>>>> The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to
>>> music
>>>> composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the
>>> Tokyo
>>>> Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda
>>> Medley.
>>>> These compositions are often surprisingly good and well
>>> arranged,
>>>> because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no
>>> fear
>>>> writing for a video game.
>>>> If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos
>>> of
>>>> teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar,
>>> ukulele,
>>>> etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own
>>>> arrangements.
>>>> 3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly
>>> these
>>>> purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing
>>>> experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you
>>> copy
>>>> your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music
>>> from
>>>> friends etc.
>>>> Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost.
>>>> The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people,
>>>> because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow
>>>> brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's
>>>> Medievalish cool.
>>>> A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its
>>>> time.
>>>> I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the
>>> leader
>>>> of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early
>>> music
>>>> interpretations felt very engaging.
>>>> Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe.
>>>> This is the attitude at least I am looking for.
>>>> The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's
>>> Dowland
>>>> or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs.
>>>> Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute,
>>> but
>>>> with some percussion, this could be achieved.
>>>> And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with
>>> catchy
>>>> kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love
>>> to
>>>> play on the lute.
>>>> And the movie scores again.
>>>> 4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has
>>> taken
>>>> Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially
>>>> commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you
>>> had
>>>> tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque
>>> guitars.
>>>> I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these
>>> instruments,
>>>> as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani
>>>> instruments.
>>>> Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't
>>> mind
>>>> the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth Doré, which
>>> seems
>>>> to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price.
>>>> If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these
>>> production
>>>> methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge
>>> number
>>>> of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real
>>> hand
>>>> crafted master lute. These people might even try the original
>>> stuff,
>>>> as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great
>>>> popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces
>>> at
>>>> hand in the internets.
>>>> 5. Conclusion:
>>>> I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early
>>> Music
>>>> scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through
>>> the
>>>> playing of popular music on the Lute.
>>>> Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a
>>> bit.
>>>> What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode
>>> on
>>>> the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people
>>> will
>>>> want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it
>>> on
>>>> their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the
>>> lute
>>>> might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there
>>> were
>>>> no copyright issues back then...
>>>> This would have to be sorted out.
>>>> There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even
>>>> "intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style.
>>>> Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all
>>> there.
>>>> Don't let guitarists be the only ones :)
>>>> Here's some inspiration:
>>>>
>>>> [2][5]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOtDX-KsBDQA&data=02%7C01%7C%7C758f05d0cda34f542f9f08d54c9cf94b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636499159433194313&sdata=mngPtFuNxO4A%2FoxfVlgvGYdggwiZsG0pPyTrl1MPR8g%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> [3][6]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%C3%83&data=02%7C01%7C%7C758f05d0cda34f542f9f08d54c9cf94b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636499159433194313&sdata=1FbSmrujhdhWY5ZOJBR66EbHnpDoug%2Bbz35XgtLuLV8%3D&reserved=0³h9jGSBVJo
>>>>
>>>> [4][7]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgG3wpCeYogQ&data=02%7C01%7C%7C758f05d0cda34f542f9f08d54c9cf94b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636499159433194313&sdata=Bvk5v5eG3%2BSyXcj6MFnRbOjS9GX%2FAovZQjD1Tt2VKOw%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> [5][8]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEnINBKOnDZU&data=02%7C01%7C%7C758f05d0cda34f542f9f08d54c9cf94b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636499159433194313&sdata=bhtDSAvs0rEQMN5OCYg%2FW0MSYwxsATRMjV%2F0yBkzl0g%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> [6][9]https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBkRd_OmsJKk&data=02%7C01%7C%7C758f05d0cda34f542f9f08d54c9cf94b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636499159433194313&sdata=jzZf27wViR2URYXZgfUhmibOLkXUl5fapfp6xZimItk%3D&reserved=0
>>>> Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list.
>>>>
>>>> Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico:
>>>>
>>>> Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent points: New music
>>> for
>>>> the
>>>> lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to
>>> be a
>>>> representative emblem of early music, and new music for the
>>> lute is
>>>> not
>>>> taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding
>>> conservatory
>>>> posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what
>>> defines
>>>> early music.
>>>> I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching
>>> and
>>>> digesting information describing the arc of the early music
>>> revival
>>>> and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the
>>> apparent
>>>> downward
>>>> spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival -
>>> unless the
>>>> instrument somehow transcends the bounds of its
>>> associations with
>>>> early music. New music for the lute may help the instrument
>>>> survive,
>>>> but it will not happen without certain compromises.
>>>> I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year.
>>> Watch
>>>> this
>>>> space.
>>>> RA
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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