King Crimson’s Epitaph also works well!

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> On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote:
> 
> Excellent! There aren't nearly enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute.  
> Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's vocal range & style.
> 
> 
>> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>>    I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that
>>    is an entirely different brow level!
>>    RT
>> 
>>    On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:
>> 
>>    Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute.  A sound
>>    engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and
>>    is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
>>    performances.  He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and
>>    very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest,
>>    direct, and convincing music.  We're OK with that.
>> 
>>    RA
>>      __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>>    From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2]<lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
>>    behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<r.turov...@gmail.com>
>>    Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM
>>    To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
>>    Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
>> 
>>    If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look
>>    for
>>    another
>>    instrument for myself.
>>    Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that
>>    permeates the
>>    commercial mass culture.
>>    Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash
>>    against mass production,
>>    and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
>>    RT
>>    On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
>>    >     Interesting mail, Tristan.
>>    >     While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute
>>    flourish in
>>    >     the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is
>>    actually
>>    >     in more popular types of music.
>>    >     I think a few factors might block that though:
>>    >     1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his
>>    videos (If
>>    >     I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and
>>    that
>>    >     fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people
>>    don't
>>    >     know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
>>    >     2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or
>>    want to
>>    >     buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced
>>    Pakistani
>>    >     lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough,
>>    would
>>    >     do wonders to the lute world.
>>    >     3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of
>>    the old
>>    >     music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example)
>>    suddenly
>>    >     started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
>>    >     definitely see a large influx of new players. Having
>>    intabulations of
>>    >     popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to
>>    bring
>>    >     the instrument out of obscurity.
>>    >     The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems
>>    of
>>    >     French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool
>>    (but
>>    >     obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and
>>    warm
>>    >     tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my
>>    opinion).
>>    >     I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above
>>    problems.
>>    >     On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
>>    >     [4]<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>    >
>>    >       This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
>>    >       explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
>>    >       Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and
>>    more
>>    >       of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh
>>    no -
>>    >       back in the pundaemonium...)
>>    >       1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is
>>    bigger
>>    >       than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
>>    >       Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general
>>    audience,
>>    >       you can always assume it is because of a great sense of
>>    traditional
>>    >       tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely
>>    >       popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
>>    >       In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality
>>    and
>>    >       serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well
>>    based in
>>    >       the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for
>>    >       example).
>>    >       Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an
>>    even
>>    >       more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint)
>>    >       Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part
>>    of
>>    >       the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others
>>    have
>>    >       treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
>>    >       By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of
>>    >       popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of
>>    time for
>>    >       a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version",
>>    >       establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more
>>    >       successful than others.
>>    >       Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal
>>    piece
>>    >       of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really
>>    get
>>    >       what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me
>>    that
>>    >       though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles
>>    of
>>    >       special music do not represent the reality of most people.
>>    >       Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly
>>    fantastic
>>    >       movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today,
>>    which
>>    >       is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real
>>    orchestra.
>>    >       But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be
>>    >       ridiculed.
>>    >       2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is
>>    completely
>>    >       going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex
>>    or
>>    >       well set music of "non-classical new music", there is:
>>    >       a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and
>>    often
>>    >       deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music,
>>    embracing
>>    >       concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint,
>>    though
>>    >       often very fast paced.
>>    >       b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to
>>    "New
>>    >       Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never
>>    >       reach.
>>    >       Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will
>>    Sound", a
>>    >       chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic
>>    Music
>>    >       arrangements.
>>    >        "Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting
>>    their
>>    >       foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New
>>    Music",
>>    >       while also playing Early Music (and everything in between).
>>    They are
>>    >       not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same
>>    concert, or
>>    >       have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for
>>    them.
>>    >       Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar
>>    >       things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful
>>    crossovers
>>    >       seem rare.
>>    >       c) Computer and Video game music.
>>    >       The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to
>>    music
>>    >       composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the
>>    Tokyo
>>    >       Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda
>>    Medley.
>>    >       These compositions are often surprisingly good and well
>>    arranged,
>>    >       because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no
>>    fear
>>    >       writing for a video game.
>>    >       If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos
>>    of
>>    >       teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar,
>>    ukulele,
>>    >       etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own
>>    >       arrangements.
>>    >       3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly
>>    these
>>    >       purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing
>>    >       experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you
>>    copy
>>    >       your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music
>>    from
>>    >       friends etc.
>>    >       Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost.
>>    >        The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people,
>>    >       because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow
>>    >       brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's
>>    >       Medievalish cool.
>>    >       A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its
>>    >       time.
>>    >       I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the
>>    leader
>>    >       of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early
>>    music
>>    >       interpretations felt very engaging.
>>    >       Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe.
>>    >       This is the attitude at least I am looking for.
>>    >       The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's
>>    Dowland
>>    >       or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs.
>>    >       Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute,
>>    but
>>    >       with some percussion, this could be achieved.
>>    >       And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with
>>    catchy
>>    >       kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love
>>    to
>>    >       play on the lute.
>>    >       And the movie scores again.
>>    >       4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has
>>    taken
>>    >       Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially
>>    >       commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you
>>    had
>>    >       tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque
>>    guitars.
>>    >       I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these
>>    instruments,
>>    >       as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani
>>    >       instruments.
>>    >       Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't
>>    mind
>>    >       the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth Doré, 
>> which
>>    seems
>>    >       to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price.
>>    >       If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these
>>    production
>>    >       methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge
>>    number
>>    >       of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real
>>    hand
>>    >       crafted master lute. These people might even try the original
>>    stuff,
>>    >       as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great
>>    >       popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces
>>    at
>>    >       hand in the internets.
>>    >       5. Conclusion:
>>    >       I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early
>>    Music
>>    >       scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through
>>    the
>>    >       playing of popular music on the Lute.
>>    >       Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a
>>    bit.
>>    >       What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode
>>    on
>>    >       the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people
>>    will
>>    >       want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it
>>    on
>>    >       their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the
>>    lute
>>    >       might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there
>>    were
>>    >       no copyright issues back then...
>>    >       This would have to be sorted out.
>>    >       There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even
>>    >       "intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style.
>>    >       Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all
>>    there.
>>    >       Don't let guitarists be the only ones :)
>>    >       Here's some inspiration:
>>    >       [2][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA
>>    >       [3][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo
>>    >       [4][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ
>>    >       [5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU
>>    >       [6][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk
>>    >       Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list.
>>    >
>>    >     Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico:
>>    >
>>    >         Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent points: New music
>>    for
>>    >     the
>>    >         lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to
>>    be a
>>    >         representative emblem of early music, and new music for the
>>    lute is
>>    >     not
>>    >         taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding
>>    conservatory
>>    >         posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what
>>    defines
>>    >         early music.
>>    >         I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching
>>    and
>>    >         digesting information describing the arc of the early music
>>    revival
>>    >         and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the
>>    apparent
>>    >     downward
>>    >         spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival -
>>    unless the
>>    >         instrument somehow transcends the bounds of   its
>>    associations with
>>    >         early music.   New music for the lute may help the instrument
>>    >     survive,
>>    >         but it will not happen without certain compromises.
>>    >         I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year.
>>    Watch
>>    >     this
>>    >         space.
>>    >         RA
>>  
> 
> 



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