Dear Jaroslaw,
You are quoting what Thurston Dart wrote in 1957. But Jean-Marie has
convincingly mentioned the letter which proved that lord Herbert was
involved in trying to get Jacques extradited back to France and
therefore "would not likely collect music by him". Of course, this is a
bit flimsy, as you could probably always distinguish between music and
the person in question. Some of those Gaultier pieces in Cherbury were
however published both in Besard and in Varietie, 1603 and 1610
respectively, and Jacques would have been only 3 and 10 years at that
time, so not likely by him. There is of course a possibility that some
of the pieces were by Ennemond and some by Jacques. Further research
may prove this.
As to the amateur status of lord Herbert, you only have to listen to
O'Dette's CD to completely loose this presumption. Many of the pieces
in the manuscript, are magnificent and highly professional and require
a high degree of dexterity to perform.
Best
G.
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 3:38 PM, JarosÃ
aw Lipski
<[1]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl> wrote:
Most probably Gauthier refers to Jacques Gaultier d'Angleterre.
After killing his opponent in a duel Gaultier came to England in
1617. He was a member of King's Musick beginning with 1619 until
1648. Although Lord Herbert traveled both to France and Rome he
returned to London in 1617, so he had a good opportunity to meet
Jacques Gaultier who played there several times. In 1619 Edward
Herbert went back to Paris as an ambassador to the French court,
but had to leave after he opposed marriage between Prince Charles
and Henrietta Maria. King James in return banished him to Ireland
were Herbert spent almost 9 years, but from 1628 he was allowed to
return to Montgomery castle. The type of bindings in olive morocco
was already used in France by George Drobet on a book for Marie de
Medicis in 1611, so there are big chances that his lute book was
bound most probably in Paris, or it was bought by him ready made
from a bookseller on one of his trips to Paris (maybe from
Ballards?).
On the other hand Lord Cherbury was an amateur lute player and he
most probably used to copy pieces to his lute book from some loose
sheets of paper dated probably much earlier, and which he acquired
from renown lute players that he met. This is why we can't be sure
about exact dates and attribution of particular pieces, but it seems
very likely that he met Jacques Gaultier on several occasions and he
is the most likely composer of the compositions in question.
Best
JL
> WiadomoÃ
à napisana przez Alain Veylit
<[2]al...@musickshandmade.com> w dniu 02.02.2018, o godz. 19:04:
>
>
> There are two possible connections between Cherbury and
Ennemond
> Gautier: both were connected to the Montmorency household, and
Cherbury
> was acting as English ambassador at court when Ennemond moved
there ca.
> 1620. Yet Ennemond was apparently stingy when it came to
sharing his
> music and the music in the Cherb MS seems more representative
of his
> earlier stay in France and is consistently using the vieil ton.
So I
> still think that Jacques Gautier (d'Angleterre) is the more
likely
> author of the Adieu.
> I could not find the references to Cherbury on Peter Stueur's
site
> alas... (I wonder if the Vorhandene Manuskripte table could be
given
> its own page with more descriptive titles associated with the
sources
> numbers...)
> Alain
>
> On 02/02/2018 02:55 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:
>
> We do learn at all ages indeed ;-)!
> Au passage, thank you Alain for all your hard work so useful to
all of us !
> Jen-Marie
>
>
> Le 2 févr. 2018 à 11:10, G. C. [2]<[3]kalei...@gmail.com> a écrit
:
>
> I was not aware of lord Herbert's Jacques Gaultier extradition
letter
> (found on Alain's site). The fact that some of the pieces have
> concordances in both Besard (1603) and Varietie (1610), also
exclude
> Jacques.
> By the way, Alain, you should look at the concordances by Peter
Steur
> to update those on the Fandango Cherbury page, where the ms. is not
too
> unreadable. Very nice work, thanks Alain!
> G.
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 3:25 AM, Alain Veylit
> [3]<[1][4]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
> Just a couple of points of recent history: back some 10 or 15 years
> ago, Joel Dugot from the French lute society
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [4]mailto:[5]al...@musickshandmade.com
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4fsnOIpCE
> 2. mailto:[8]kalei...@gmail.com
> 3. mailto:[1][9]al...@musickshandmade.com
> 4. mailto:[10]al...@musickshandmade.com
> 5. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
2. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
3. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
4. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
5. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4fsnOIpCE
8. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
9. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
10. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
