Paul Odette was inspired by Julian Bream. One played thumb out, the
other played thumb under. Both got excellent results. That is what
matters the most.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
On Aug 1, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Mathias Rösel
<[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
Well, I've been a member on the list as well. As it seems to me, all
authors after 1600 who deal with this subject recommend thumb out.
Vallet even ridicules thumb in.
We'll never know what player actually did, if they complied with the
recommendations. Today, research on strings and soundboards points
into
the same direction: thumb out.
Everybody is free, if course, to do what they like best. Everybody
has
been so, ever since. I don't care. And I don't want to listen to
players who play the baroque lute thumb in, any more.
my two cents. just an ordinary member
Mathias
__________________________________________________________________
Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
--- Original-Nachricht ---
Von: G. C.
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: RH folk style
Datum: 01.08.2019, 21:46 Uhr
An: Lutelist
Eloquently said Ron, as always!
G.
tor. 1. aug. 2019 kl. 21.28 skrev Ron Andrico
<[1][2][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>:
Relax, Howard. No one is on trial here. Perhaps anathema is a
less
apt choice to describe alternatives to a right-hand position for
playing post-1600 repertory on proper lutes. But for all
intents and
purposes, thumb-under technique is certainly not an historically
appropriate right-hand position for what we call baroque lute.
That is
not to say it was never used, but Besard (Dowland) and Vallet,
said it
in print, and there are countless pictorial representations from
the
period that strongly suggest the right-hand thumb was very, very
much
out.
This is a difficult truth to countenance for all those notable
soldiers
of the famous 1970s thumb-under brigade, who fought long and
loudly to
distinguish themselves from lute-dabbling classical guitarists
(even to
the point of eschewing the wearing of the ceremonial black
turtleneck),
but it is a truth nonetheless. I'll say it here: Based upon the
body
of surviving evidence from the period, lutes with diapasons
designed to
be used for post-1600 music were historically intended to be
played
with the right-hand thumb out, not under.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: [2][3][3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3][4][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of howard
posner
<[4][5][5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 5:18 PM
To: Lutelist <[5][6][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RH folk style
I'm not aware of anyone on this stating categorically that
thumb-in is
anathema on the d-minor lute. But I could easily have missed
it, or
deleted it and forgotten about it. I tend not to waste time
dealing
with categorical statements about how every player in history
played
the same way. And if, by chance, I've ever written anything here
in the
last 25 years that sounds like a categorical statement about the
way
every player, ever, played the same way, chalk it up to sloppy
writing
(or thinking), delete it, and forget about it.
On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:23 AM, G. C. <[6][7][7]kalei...@gmail.com>
wrote:
People on this list f. ex.?
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1][7][8][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.c
s.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29S
RQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONB
Rt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_
Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
--
References
1.
[8][9][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qn
qkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
--
References
1. mailto:[10][10]praelu...@hotmail.com
2. mailto:[11][11]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:[12][12]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:[13][13]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
5. mailto:[14][14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:[15][15]kalei...@gmail.com
7.
[16][16]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&
m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnq
kbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
8.
[17][17]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&
m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnq
kbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
--
References
1.
[18]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kommunikations
dienste.t-2Donline.de_redirects_email-5Fapp-5Fandroid-5Fsendmail-5Ffoot
er&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C
6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6Er
WCWWI&s=gKotG2uKTJdvrMCiCMvvBbie6_xFEdNz--3S4vhz67A&e=
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3. [20]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
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8.
[25]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CK
S_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKE
lw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
9.
[26]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CK
S_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKE
lw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
10. [27]mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
11. [28]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
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16.
[33]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CK
S_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKE
lw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
17.
[34]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CK
S_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKE
lw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
References
1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
8.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
9.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
10. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
11. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
12. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
13. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
14. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
16.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
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https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
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https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kommunikationsdienste.t-2Donline.de_redirects_email-5Fapp-5Fandroid-5Fsendmail-5Ffooter&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=gKotG2uKTJdvrMCiCMvvBbie6_xFEdNz--3S4vhz67A&e=
19. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
20. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
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22. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
23. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
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25.
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26.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
27. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
28. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
29. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
30. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
31. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
32. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
33.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
34.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIBAg&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI&s=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ&e=
