Dear Antonio:
I find this discussion intriguing. While Milan was certainly a capable
(if idiosyncratic) composer, I would not discount the notion that his
published music may have at least been inspired by the work of others.
In fact, Milan did borrow heavily from Baldassare Castiglioneâs Il
Cortegiano (1528), and Verdelot's Il primo libro de madrigali (undated)
that includes Madonna per voi ardo (XXI) may have been published and
available as early as Castiglione's book.
In the sixteenth century, everyone who received instruction in music
was taught the rules of composing. And while today we tend to measure
a composer by the looming 19th-century standard of the towering artist,
there was a great deal of borrowing as a matter of course in the 16th
century. An anthologizer like Milan could very well have put his name
on his own arrangement of a popular villancico that circulated as an
unharmonized melody, or he might have composed his own unique setting
that showed off his dexterity with the many running quavers, an aspect
we enjoy today. In the 16th century either form would have been
attributed solely to Milan because it was in his published book.
I would not dismiss the idea that Milan, who was proud of his
cosmopolitan lifestyle, may have borrowed music from here and there and
put his stamp on it.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Antonio Corona
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 2:35 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?
Dear Dmitry
I'm afraid I shall have to differ on this point. Such a speculation
implies a number of uncertain variables that makes it, in my opinion,
untenable. Milan showed himself a competent composer in his other
songs: I see no reason to brush this fact aside and look elsewhere.
Best wishes
Antonio
On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 19:18:06 GMT-6, Dmitry Medvedev
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Antonio,
I was also thinking of some musical similarities between Verdelot's
madrigal "Madonna per voi ardo" and Milan's piece. They are admittedly
too vague to suggest that Milan directly used it as a model, but
perhaps
as a starting point, or there was some other version of the song that
they both heard. But I think they are enough to at least speculate that
he had some existing Italian setting in mind when composing his own.
Dmitry
On 1/2/2020 7:48 PM, Antonio Corona wrote:
> Dear Dmitry
>
> You have a point there: as a matter of fact Milan did set to music
poetry by Petrarch and Sannazaro, but to his music.
>
> Cheers
> Antonio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 14:24:08 GMT-6, Dmitry Medvedev
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Ah, sorry, should have read more carefully about sonadas :)
>
> On 1/2/2020 2:51 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote:
>> Fair enough, but should we then assume that, for example, "Madonna
per
>> voi ardo", both text and music, were written by Luis Milan?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dmitry
>>
>> On 1/2/2020 1:48 PM, Antonio Corona wrote:
>>
>>> You would do well not to assume that I would state something
without
>>> basis.
>>>
>>> About authorship:
>>>
>>> Libro de musica de vihuela de mano. Intitulado El Maestro [...]
>>> Compuesto por don Luys Milan. [...] Y siguiendo mi inclinacion / he
>>> me hallado vn libro hecho de muchas obras: que de la vihuela tenia
>>> sacadas y escritas [...] si yo solo tuuiese este libro perderia su
>>> valor: pues el dexaria e hazer el prouecho que puede: Y si el me
>>> tuuiese para que ninguno pudiesse gozar del/p[er]deria yo el
mio/pues
>>> seria ingrato a quien me dio saber para hazerlo. [...] El qual
[i.e.
>>> Milán] muy affectdamente ruega a toso los que por su libro passaran
>>> que no juzguen sus obras hasta que sean tañidas como cada vno
querria
>>> que sus obras lo fuessen: y tañidas en su perficion.
>>>
>>> About the meaning of "componer":
>>>
>>> Estas seys fantasias que se siguen como arriba hos dixe parescen en
>>> su ayre y compostura a las mesmas pauanas que en Ytalia se tañen: y
>>> oues en todo remedan a ellas digamos les pauanas. las quatro
primeras
>>> son inuentadas por mi. las dos que se despues se siguen la sonada
>>> dellas se hizo en Ytalia: y la compostura sobre la sonada dellas es
mia.
>>>
>>> About the villancicos:
>>>
>>> Este que agora se sigue es el otauo quaderno de musica para cantar
y
>>> tañer [...] En el qual hallareys villancicos y sonadas en
castellano
>>> y en portugues y en ytaliano. [i.e. not Portuguese or Italian
>>> villancicos].
>>>
>>> Finalmente haueys hallado musica para cantar y tañer en castellano
y
>>> en portugues /y en ytaliano.
>>>
>>> Esta musica que agora se sigue son villancicos en castellano y
>>> portugues y sonetos en ytaliano.
>>>
>>> Aqui empieçan los villancicos en portugues: y este que se sigue
segun
>>> esta sonado el cantor pude hazer garganta.
>>>
>>>
>>> Furthermore, you would find it enlightening to read El cortesano
>>> (1561) by Milan himself, where he displays openly his proclivity
for
>>> singing and playing his own works and not those of somebody else,
as
>>> well as the poetic interchanges between the vihuelist and Juan
>>> Fernández de Heredia in Las obras de don Ioan Fernandez de Heredia,
>>> assi temporales como espirituales (1562).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 06:14:39 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Says he himself? Or what is the reason for this assumption?
>>>
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02.01.20 13:03, Antonio Corona wrote:
>>>> All the music in El Maestro is by Milán
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, 2 January 2020, 05:54:12 GMT-6, Tristan von
Neumann
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>
>>>> Aren't those just Milan's versions of the villancicos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Happy New Year,
>>>>
>>>> T*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02.01.20 11:21, Antonio Corona wrote:
>>>>> Not quite: they are villancicos in Portuguese by Milan himself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy New Year to all,
>>>>> Antonio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, 1 January 2020, 00:52:50 GMT-6, Frank A.
>>>>> Gerbode, M.D. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Luis Milan El Maestro has 3 Portuguese villancicos, #s 34
to 37
>>>>> [1]here.
>>>>> --Sarge
>>>>> --
>>>>> Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([2][email protected])
>>>>> 11132 Dell Ave
>>>>> Forestville, CA 95436-9491
>>>>> Home phone: 707-820-1759
>>>>> Website: [3]http://www.gerbode.net
>>>>> "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.
[1]http://gerbode.net/sources/Milan_el_maestro_1535/songs/
>>>>> 2. [2]mailto:[email protected]
>>>>> 3. [3]http://www.gerbode.net/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>>> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>
--
References
1. http://gerbode.net/sources/Milan_el_maestro_1535/songs/
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. http://www.gerbode.net/
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
