This is really quite an extreme example! But maybe with a different technique it would be possible e.g. to play the first chord? Sometimes, I have the impression that they used also Barrés with the second or third finger, which would (theoretically) make it possible to play the first chord. Just today I found an similar chord in a piece by Hurel, which would need a barré with the second or fourth finger. I'll hopefully get my new renaissance lute this or next week (7courses, 85cm), I'm very curious to try it! :-) and then still we have to consider a world without 1. printed full scores and 2. recordings. So, in order to study a piece of music, you would have to perform - or read it - just by yourself. Maybe this was really kind of "full score" for them - you can use it to study the music and counterpoint, and if you actually want to perfor it you still can decide to omit some notes.


Am 28.04.2020 21:25 schrieb Guilherme Barroso:
Dear Yuval,

Thanks a lot for your answer.

I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some
places. Of course with your lute, even worse.

But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not
possible.

I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from
1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible
to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in
Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find a
way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical?

Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 às 20:50, <[email protected]>
escreveu:

Dear Guilherme,

it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be
nice
to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago,
and
he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all
kind
of tablature fluently - quite crazy!
To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal
experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical
experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina
and
me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on
traverso -
so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked
quite
well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the
voices.
Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm),
I
decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a
perfect
voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the
madrigals
recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner

voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for
the
lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a
good
phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If
you're
interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces
we
recorded on youtube.
Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns
intabulations,
Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the
same
time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now
(maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal
exactly? At
the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music
existed, so
maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the
intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which
role
the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable"
parts
on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or
third
fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument.

All the best,
Yuval

Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso:
Dear Lute collective,
For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the
intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your
ideas.
When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations
to
the
lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult
to
play.
Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example,
some
times present passages that are not only very demanding
technically
but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his
book
about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of
Galilei's
intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition,
not to
be
played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i
Colli
for
solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices)
and
another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is
extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and
voice
version for sure was intended to be performed while the other
might
be
intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the
same
as
making a score for study purposes.
There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are
more
concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work
then
making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument.
Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several
composers
and several places with specific differences. Le Roy, for
example,
is
more willing to make changes to adapt to the instrument, he
says
that
the "playability and beauty should come first".
But even very complex intabulations were clearly meant to be
played,
like the Terzi intabulations of vocal pieces that present a
"Contrapunto" from another lute. Terzi intabulations clearly
prefer
to
maintain the original vocal piece in the intabulation in spite
of
the
diffculty to play.
What do you think about this?
When you play this repertoire, do you try to keep all notes?
Do you
omit certain notes to make it more playful? Do you make
decision
based
on the musical flow?
I am very curious to hear your ideas.
All the best,
--
Guilherme Barroso
[1]www.guilherme-barroso.com [1]

--

References

1. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ [2]


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html [3]

--

Guilherme Barroso
www.guilherme-barroso.com [1]



Links:
------
[1] http://www.guilherme-barroso.com
[2] http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/
[3] http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


Reply via email to