On Friday, 30 September 2016 1:50:14 AM AEST Rick Moen via luv-main wrote: > > Why systemd out of all the things that I have blogged about? > > Give me a few milion AUS$, and I'll do a proper sociological study. > Short of that, I can speculate: > > Being angry at SE-Linux maintainers would be the world's lamest and > least dramatic way of expressing pique at NSA over data collection.
Yet occasionally people do such things. > Also, poorly socialised nerds don't perceive NSA as taking their toys > away the way (e.g.) entitlement-crazed debian-user subscribers do when > faced with the prospect of 1000+ developers not promising to do do > exactly what they, the debian-user subscribers, want. The Snowden revelations effectively forced the world to use HTTPS. That took a few toys away. > However, I think it a rather more likely factor that the 8Chan types had > already glommed onto the systemd discussion within Debian as being a > symbolic 'SJW' issue, hence they jumped in with their characteristic > vitriol even though they overwhelmingly have little or no interest in > Debian or even Linux. However would they have got that idea? The people who are known for trying to make a better social environment in Debian didn't seem to have much interest in the systemd issue until the anti-justice types got involved. > And, if you're referring in particular to your 'anti-systemd-people' > blog post, if you didn't set out to flamebait that lot (and, actually, https://etbe.coker.com.au/2015/01/13/systemd-notes/ No, I'm referring to the above blog post which was linked from the anti- systemd-people post. In that post I provided information that should be useful to anyone who is new to systemd. I listed some benefits of systemd in the most brief technical way, no sales stuff there. I didn't criticise anyone in that post. > > Some addresses have been banned from the Debian BTS. But that doesn't > > scale well and causes some annoyance to people maintaining the > > packages in question and the Debian sysadmin team. You don't get to > > just use a killfile if you are part of a project like Debian. > > I see nothing in the Social Contract, New Maintainer's Guide, or any > other aspect of being a DD that would in any way mitigate against > killfiling abusive people. Nor should there be. When someone makes malicious bug reports it takes a lot more effort to delete them than simply deleting a message. It is impossible for a regular DD to killfile someone from the BTS, only the sysadmin team can do that. > But on the other had, Joey Hess is a good friend of mine, and I know > quite a bit about how his dismay over the whole systemd fiasco lead to > his resignation and walking away -- a terrible loss to the project. > I might point out that his primary source of alienation was not the > flamers but rather the extreme organisational dysfunction revealed to > him by the way the project conducted itself. Joey came to the > conclusion that the Debian Constitution is toxic, causing dysfunction > and pushing away good people as an emergent effect. Surprising really given all the other toxic stuff that has happened in Debian. Debian is so much better than it used to be! > > True. But the whole process of arguing about systemd has put a lot of > > people off. Anyone who's not up for an argument is probably giving such > > packages a wide berth. > > As I said, Joey is a good friend of mine -- and in his view the problem > was less the outside users' misbehaviour than Debian Project's, itself. > > (I make no comment on his view. You would have to ask him for any > further particulars, so please don't expect me to provide them.) But it was this issue out of the thousands of issues that have arisen previously that got the involvement of the outside users and demonstrated the problem to a level that Joey couldn't ignore. > > It is exactly linked with those utilities. > > {sigh} Your phrase 'linked to' has multiple meanings, and I thought it > would be entirely evident that I was reading your comment as implying > some of those broader meanings. _Of course_ I know that Busybox > implements its version of cp, mv, ls, etc. via hard links to > /usr/bin/busybox. That's the _first thing_ to learn about BusyBox. > > I had _thought_ my meaning was quite clear. Sometimes, Russell, you are > pretty amazingly unable to deal with nuance. No, it's just that I am sticking to the exact meaning of my statement and not allowing you to reinterpret it. > > > I'm hardly 'desperate' to call myself a feminist. > > > > Then why are we even discussing it? > > Because (some months ago) you went out of your way to deny that I'm one, > and I found that _very_ amusing, and because I have an entirely unfair > sense of humour such that I'm glad to still needle you over that. ;-> I think that when a man is claiming to be a feminist it's strongly correlated to him being a jerk. This is evidence to support that theory. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-main
