On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 08:14:29PM +1100, luv-main@luv.asn.au wrote: > On 01.10.16 01:34, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote: > > anyway, systemd's borging of every function it possibly can will > > inevitably lead to the death of innovation in linux and bring about > > a software monoculture (nothing will be able to compete with it > > because in order to do so, a competitor will have to replicate > > and replace every thing it does, not just be better at one or two > > things). and moncultures are *always* unhealthy. > > > > In short, the price for systemd's one or two nice (but not unique) > > features is far too high. > > > > that's my position on systemd anyway, and it seems not an uncommon > > one. > > +1
-1, actually. I mostly gave in. I converted two of my home systems to systemd a few days ago (including my primary desktop/server machine). I'm hoping it's easier to work around systemd'ѕ bugs and annoyances than to have to deal with the (expected but unwanted) future of packages having sysvinit support dropped. certainly less work than converting every new debian system I build to sysvinit or openrc or something. I was rebooting anyway in order to replace a failed SSD on one machine and convert both of them to root on ZFS. It booted up OK on both, so I made it the default. If it refrains from sucking badly enough to really piss me off for a decent length of time, i'll leave it as the default. At least debian's systemd disables some of the extra crap by default...and debian's update-grub makes menu entries for both systemd and sysvinit so you can test it before committing to it on any given machine. So i've gonve from 3 x sysvinit + 1 systemd to 3 x systemd + 1 sysvinit. If i could figure out why systemd refuses to see /boot or the swap partition on the fourth system (my mythtv backend), i'd convert that too...but journalctl doesn't seem to be accessible when i reboot back into the (100% working) sysvinit. when i have time to look at it, i'll dump it to a text file. I was more concerned with getting it rebooted quickly because a scheduled recording was coming up. (this is, of courtse, one of the reasons I dislike journald. logs should be plain text, so you can access them without specialised tools. and rsyslogd wasn't running in the semi-broken recovery mode that systemd dumped me in after making me wait 1m30s until it finished doing mysterious things (AFAICT, it was doing nothing except twiddling some stars on screen). This is another systemd annnoyance, everything and anything that goes wrong during boot (no matter how trivial) is an excuse for it to twiddle stars for either 90 seconds or 5 minutes....instead of just giving me a shell instantly so i can fix it. And there doesn't seem to be any obvious keystroke to tell systemd to stop with the damn stars and either continue or give me a shell. > (Though I'm not sure that systemd's rapacious appetite for monolithic > hegemony does a lot more than stultify its own development. In > any ecological niche, more agile competitors will tend to gain > ascendancy. I look forward to that, and will do what I can to avoid > systemd - as I would any unwieldy dinosaur. If that involves avoiding > gnome, then that's no loss.) I don't use gnome either. in fact they're the originators of The Gnome Problem that systemd has adopted (which is jwz's CADT definition plus a huge dose of "fuck you, you just don't understand our glorious vision and you're not our target audience anyway") I used to use a few gnome apps but they've all been uglified with hard-coded gnome title-bars and buttons and inscrutable hieroglyph menus etc that they're hideous on other WMs or DEs like KDE. I can't tell if that's a deliberate FU to users/devs of other environments or if they just don't give a damn about them. Evince was the last gnome app I used, and i've replaced that with qpdview, epfview, and okular, each of which has its good points and bad points - e.g. epdfview doesn't do tabs or even multiple windows, qpdfview does tabs nicely but not multi-window, and okular has excellent render-caching, support multiple windows, but doesn't do tabs. they're not the only pros and cons but they're the most obvious. you can sort of make epdfview do multi-window, but only by starting another instance and then browsing all the way to the file you want to open. > And, of course, Vi is also a dinosaur, displaced by Vim with > "nocompatible" set. vi's still quite usable. I install plain old nvi (or vim-tiny) on lots of systems (well, mostly containers and some VMs), it's just vim without the frills...the really important stuff works the same. > The coming and passing of systemd will in hindsight be seen as a storm > in a teacup, I suspect. (Not comparable with the couple of hours after one can only hope. but probably not. i think it's a one way trip, and once it's cemented it's stranglehold on linux the effort required to escape systemd will be too great. craig -- craig sanders <c...@taz.net.au> _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list luv-main@luv.asn.au https://lists.luv.asn.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/luv-main
