Am 06.03.2018 um 04:47 schrieb Richard Heck:

What? So I should deliver a LyX installer leading to a broken LaTeX
that can only be fixed by reinstalling MiKTeX? That cannot be the goal!

The proposal is to *abort* the LyX installation, if the user does not
want to update. You can explain in a dialog that LyX will not work
otherwise. But you cannot screw with their system without their
permission. Really.

Here is my last attempt to explain the situation. Then I will be quiet because I already invested now about 20 hours in nothing else than this.

Who is affected by the following?:
- most users having either installed MiKTeX the first time between October and maybe mid January this year (independent if LyX was installed too) - many users who use MiKTeX and updated it in the time between October and maybe mid January. They might run an update on their own or they compiled a LyX file using a missing package.

Here are the principal use cases for LyX users:

A: I am a happy user of LyX 2.2.x and are not interested to upgrade anything. If I get now a document from a colleague containing a LaTeX package I don't have yet installed, MiKTeX detects it when you compile the document. To be able to install the missing package, it needs to update its package handling system. Due to a bug this update can break LaTeX completely and the user is lost. None of his LyX document will be compilable anymore. The only solution for him is to reinstall MiKTeX and he looses all his personal settings, packages, BibTeX style files etc. and need to set them up again. Most users don't care about the system behind LyX, they just see that their LyX doesn't work anymore.

B: I want to try out LyX 2.3.0. The installer tells me that I must upgrade MiKTeX but I deny this. When LyX is started the first time after the installation, it runs which in turn executes chklatex.ltx. This triggers MiKTeX to check for packages, missing packages will be installed, mf-files of fonts will be created etc. To be able to do this, MiKTeX will update its package handling system. The result is the same as for use case A.

C: I want to try out LyX 2.3.0. and use version 3 of the LyX for Windows installer. The installer forces an update of the package handling system at the right step and at this step it has the chance to repair a broken MiKTeX system and will do so. This solution was developed by the MiKTeX developer. As result, I get a fully functional LyX, all my personal MiKTeX settings, packages etc. will be kept.

If this doesn't make the situation clear, I give up.

> The point is that we do not affect people's systems without permission.
> Otherwise, we get reports like
> which is unacceptable.

Why are you claiming that the Win installer is to blame here? These claims are annoying. At first the LyX installer available in January did not update MiKTeX if you don't want to. The problem described by the bug report is that he uses 2 different MiKTeX installations the same time, one is set up for all users, one only for the current user. Therefore they interfere. Maybe he installed winedt only for the current user and LyX for all users or the opposite. Hard to say, but of course if you have set up MiKTeX for all users you cannot overwrite its settings for the current user with another instance of MiKTeX without getting problems.

> As Scott said some time ago, it is very strange indeed if LyX's basic
> functionality breaks because of a change in some external program's
> package-handling mechanism. LyX should not be that entwined with
> external programs.

Reality is not what we wish. LyX users want to get an output of the documents. To get this, third-party programs are necessary like ImageMagick, Python, LaTeX, Ghostscript etc. If a third-party program has a bug, LyX users don't get an output. This happens from time to time. In the past there were e.g. often issues with ImageMagick and now we have a severe bug in MiKTeX. In most cases you are not involved because if there is for example a bug in a third-party program I just release a new installer with a version of the third-party program that is known to work.


At last a personal statement: I read in the discussions from time to time that some are not familiar with Windows but nevertheless they state what is right or wrong in their opinion. That is no base for a discussion. Either invest time to try it out on Windows on your own or trust me and the MiKTeX developer. I have other things to do on a sunny day than to sit at home like a nerd with 3 different PCs to test different installations, update states etc. to find a solution.

I also miss the view on what users need the most: a LyX that just works with all its features. They don't want to learn what a package is, how it is handled, what the cryptic package names like "marvosym" stand for, what packages LyX needs for what feature etc. As user I need a system with which I can just write my text and focus on that. If I like e.g. to wavy underline some words, I just want to do this and not to get cryptic error messages that a package is not available. How should I know that the missing package is necessary because of my wavy underline?

regards Uwe

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