>>>>> "Juergen" == Juergen Spitzmueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Juergen> OK. it's more complicated than I thought. Let's see if I Juergen> understand your ideas... Juergen> Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> There are 2 types of quote that can be parametrized: normal (e.g. >> outer) and alternate (e.g. inner). For each of these, I see three >> cases: >> >> - use the default type for the language (this means that the same >> quote will change aspect if you change the language of the >> paragraph which contains it). Most people will do that. Juergen> The quote style for languages is set in preferences. We have Juergen> hardcoded default styles for each languages, for some Juergen> languages we have a second possibility (e.g. for German Juergen> ,,text`` as default, �text� as second possibility). With the Juergen> choice in preferences you can toggle between those two Juergen> possibilities and change the default in lyxrc. But I see now Juergen> that we need a possibility to chose between "Default" and Juergen> "Custom" in the Character popup where you set the language of Juergen> the paragraphs. While there are second choices in the file I sent, my idea was to avoid implementing them and let the user use custom quotes when he wants a non-standard style. I'd say this will be enough. >> - use a default type which is the same over all the document (set >> in document popup, and exisiting quotes change when the doc default >> is changed) Juergen> This is what the "quotation mark" stuff in Document is Juergen> intended for. Yes. >> - use a hardcoded type which will never change after the quote has >> been inserted (this is what we have now) Juergen> OK, I thought we won't allow this anymore. But I admit this Juergen> is probably too restrictive. How should we deal with this? Juergen> Should we add a second choice "Hardcoded Quotes" in Document? Juergen> An Easier solution would be to merge Point 1 and 2: (1.) The Juergen> quotation mark style in the Document popup is hardcoded and Juergen> won't change (as it is now). It is independent from the Juergen> language of the document. (2.) Additionally we have a Juergen> language dependent quotation mark style in the Character Juergen> popup. If I change the language of a paragraph, the quotation Juergen> mark style changes, too. I have a different idea now. The user would choose either Language default or custom quotes (as outlined above), and one would have a check box "hardcode quotes" (or whatever) so that the quote is set explicitely in the document and is not affected by subsequent language/quotes changes. This checkbox could be either in prefs or document layout (probably prefs). The choice of custom/language quotes should be done separately for the two kind of quotes (so that the user can choose to use the alternative quotes either for inner quoting or anything he sees fit). Juergen> But then we need different key bindings. E.g.: - " sets Juergen> hardcoded quotation marks (single or double, opening or Juergen> closing) the way it uses to do now. - Ctrl+q sets language Juergen> dependent double quotes, Alt+q sets language dependend single Juergen> quotes, opening and closing follows the same rule as Juergen> hardcoded quotes. No, rather " for normal quotes and M-" (or C-") for alternative quotes. >> For each of these, the right quote and left quote can be set >> separately (a quote <<like that'' is stupid but possible, for >> example). Juergen> Very stupid IMHO. But possible with the above proposal. The idea is that different languages have very weird ideas of what left and right quotes can be, so we should offer maximal flexibility. >> - maybe something indicating that there is space on the left or on >> the right (this is useful for french) Juergen> On the screen display side? Or do you want an option where Juergen> the user can set this? (E.g.: "Separate quotation mark from Juergen> quotation: ____ [em]") No, the latex output would just have a space and babel takes care of putting the right kind of space there. >> The GUI should be able to show an example of quoting with the >> parameters chosen. Juergen> I have added an info field to the document popup (besides Juergen> "Language Default") that should display the current language Juergen> default, e.g. �text�. The other possibilities will be shown Juergen> in the choice of course. Yes. Juergen> In Preferences->Language, you can chose one of the language Juergen> specific quotation marks (if there are more than one) as Juergen> default (I think this should be done there and saved in the Juergen> lyxrc file). See above. I'd rather try to keep things simple (unless people tell me that the two kind of quotes are equally used). >> Then Pref->language should be able to change settings for _any_ >> language, which is not the case now AFAIK. Juergen> I do not understand this. Isn't it possible to chose any Juergen> language there and set the default quotation mark? I think the misunderstanding is related to my previous remark... Juergen> I have deleted the "single" and "double" checkboxes, as they Juergen> become obsolete IMHO if you can access them directly via Juergen> keyboard. >> No, because you have two types of quotes, which are not >> necessarily in double/single pair. For example, french would be << >> a quote ``and another one'' >> Juergen> I see. But that's only true for the "hardcoded quotes". The Juergen> language specific quotes can be chosen with Ctlr+q (double) Juergen> and Alt+q (single). So we need this (back) in the Document Juergen> popup. My proposal is to replace double/single semantics with normal/alternative. >> I knw that what I am proposing is rather complicated (in terms of >> GUI and implementation), so tell me if it is overdone, and I'll >> gladly simplify it :) Juergen> Well, it's indeed not easy (and we have to take care that it Juergen> is not too much for the user). Let me summarize and tell me Juergen> if that would be o.k.: Juergen> (1.) Preferences: set the language default quotation marks Juergen> (if there is more than one possibility). Like it is in my Juergen> proposed new Preferences dialog. In what I propose it would be (1.) Preferences: add a checkbox [ ] hardcode quotes. One might argue that this pref is not useful, but we will have to handle hardcoded quotes from older documents anyway. And hardcoing quotes is useful when one wants more than two styles of quotes. Juergen> (2.) Document: chose the style of the hardcoded quotes which Juergen> will be accessed by the "-key. I wouldn't add a "Language Juergen> Default" option here, because this is irritating if they Juergen> won't change after a language change. (2a) [Not shure] Add a Juergen> second possibility to select the language specific quotation Juergen> marks (either default or custom), which will be accessed by Juergen> Ctlr+q and Alt+q. Those can be changed for single paragraphs Juergen> in the Character popup. This would be: for each of "normal" and "alternative" quote: have a choice of language default/custom have a way to define what a custom quote would be Juergen> (3.) Character: Set the language specific quotation marks for Juergen> single paragraphs (either default or custom) which will be Juergen> accessed by Ctlr+q and Alt+q. These quotation marks change if Juergen> the language changes. I do not see the point of this. First, if it is for 'single paragraph', it should be in the paragraph popup. Then, this would mean this info is stored in the document at chgaracter level? This is more ambitious that what I had in mind. Do we need that? Juergen> Does this sound (more) sensible? We are going to converge. Soon :) Feel free to disagree with me. I am myself trying to make up my mind while arguing. JMarc
