Yeah, the trouble with eBay is that they rarely list the pin diameters and 
they're usually a little thick for an IC socket, although I guess it doesn't 
matter if you don't plan to put an IC back in there.

Regarding the carrier, on some of my hacks after soldering the pins I just pull 
it right off for a flush fit.

m

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Adolph" <[email protected]>
To: "Model 100 Discussion" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] REX second source


> Hi Mike,
> Regarding the NEC REX version, I found on ebay a part that I could
> never identify, but had the perfect characteristics.  I bought enough
> for 50 modules.  I can describe the pin header as
> 
> * very low profile plastic carrier, (that needs to be trimmed to fit
> around the flash chip)
> * round pins for engaging the socket
> * thicker round pins for soldering to REX
> 
> the end result is a REX that fits right down tight onto the socket in
> the 8201/8300.
> 
> typical machine pin headers have a carrier that is too thick, I found.
> I could be wrong.
> 
> Those Batten and Allen edge pins are also a good solution, but the
> need to be trimmed to length, carefully.  I've never bought any of
> those nor have I made a PCB that uses them to date.
> Steve
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Mike Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Yeah, I think we already discussed that 'sliced-through-the-holes' OptROM 
>> edge treatment (as well as the Facebook issue ;-) last summer...
>>
>> @ Steve:
>> Did you end up getting some of those Batten and Allen edge pins that D'Asaro 
>> uses, or are you using something else for the NEC etc.?
>>
>> m
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Stephen Adolph" <[email protected]>
>> To: "Model 100 Discussion" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [M100] REX second source
>>
>>
>>> Brian - keeping it short - I am aware that, with current PCB shops,
>>> there is an easier way to go.  I have inventory of existing designs,
>>> and the existing design is validated.  Grinding the PCBs is simple
>>> enough, and I don't personally think it is worth a board spin when I
>>> have 100 or so PCBs around.  NEC versions don't need to be ground, but
>>> they need very specific header pins to be soldered in place.
>>>
>>>
>>> ..Steve
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Brian White <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Steve, when you say you have to grind the boards, do you mean you grind the
>>>> long sides down to cut the 28 large through holes in half?
>>>>
>>>> That right there is a great example of what I mean by letting the
>>>> community/users help improve the design.
>>>> If the cad file were up in a git repo, or just publicized anywhere any how,
>>>> it doesn't have to be github, I could have told you since more than a year
>>>> ago, that you can get those manufactured with the holes already cut in 
>>>> half.
>>>> That's one of those whole pain in the neck steps 90% erased already, just
>>>> from someone else telling you something they discovered and now you can
>>>> incorporate it.
>>>>
>>>> You can specify the outside dimension to go right through the holes, and 
>>>> the
>>>> router will do it, and leave just the right final outside dimension, with
>>>> all those holes cut in half for you. That's how the figtronix boards come.
>>>>
>>>> When I build a figtronix board, all I have to do is barely sand it a little
>>>> just to knock down the "rat bites" (breakaway tabs), and sometimes clean 
>>>> off
>>>> these tiny little copper flags that hang off the side of some holes, left
>>>> behind by the way the router cuts through the through hole plating.
>>>>
>>>> But that only takes a takes a few seconds one minute and the tools are just
>>>> a sheet of sand paper on a flat surface. I use a cheap wood cutting board.
>>>> Couple swipes and it's good to go.
>>>>
>>>> pics
>>>> https://goo.gl/photos/i4DX5LEywTTSevQs6
>>>>
>>>> That's what I mean by you're working too hard and worrying about things you
>>>> don't have to worry about. I don't know how to help with 50 different 
>>>> things
>>>> abouyt the design, but I know that one thing. Somone else knows one other
>>>> thing, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>> And, even though this is already better than having to grind all that board
>>>> down, I bet it can still get even better.
>>>> I *think* (I don't know), but I think you can also specify where the
>>>> rat-bites go, within limits. So I think it's also possible with a board 
>>>> this
>>>> small to make it only have 2 rat bites on the ends and have perfectly clean
>>>> contacts all down the long edges. Or you might be able to make it put 4
>>>> total rat bites, but with 2 on each end and none on the sides. And then you
>>>> can reduce the long dimension *slightly* to allow the board to fit in the
>>>> socket without even cleaning up the board to sand down the rat bites flat.
>>>> Could just break 'em off and go. No sanding at all. That's the kind of 
>>>> thing
>>>> I would research and figure out just for my own satisfaction, and then when
>>>> I have figured out how one does that, I'd tell you, or I'd do a submit
>>>> request to submit changes to the cad files. Just like if I do figure that
>>>> out, I'd tell FigTroniX and then the figtronix board gets that much better
>>>> to use.
>>>>
>>>> That's a lot of labor and manual steps totally eliminated from the final
>>>> design just from having users be able to contribute. You don't have to have
>>>> it all perfect, you just get it up there and let everyone who has an
>>>> interest in it help make it better over time.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> bkw
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Doug Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that transferring would be work. I feel that separating the
>>>>> hardware and software may be the path forward, especially if the hardware
>>>>> design is proven.
>>>>>
>>>>> My clocks use a 240mm square PCB that I source from Pcbcart. Experience
>>>>> has shown that they are cheaper than OSH part for volume. I normally order
>>>>> boards as 60 to 100 units at a time to take advantage of volume discounts.
>>>>> Same for parts, I have oearnt that volume discounts make sense in small
>>>>> scale manufacturing.
>>>>>
>>>>> After surface reflow, all of my boards go through a test and firmware
>>>>> loading jig. I published the design for one of the jigs on 
>>>>> Instructables.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Programming-Jig-for-our-DougsWordClockcom-DeskC/
>>>>> this radicaly simplifies the firmware load. I am confident that I could
>>>>> devel op something to do the CPLD load as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the perspective of manufacturing capacity, my workshop has
>>>>> microscopes and logic analysers and grinders etc etc.. but it woud be
>>>>> worthwhile figuring out how to modify the design so that there was no need
>>>>> to rip spacers from wood, or grind boards and remove as many manual 
>>>>> handling
>>>>> steps as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 January 2017 12:52:26 pm AEDT, Stephen Adolph <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug, thanks for your note - read on...let's discuss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be happy to put the board files on Oshpark, and place the
>>>>>> software, firmware, test applications in a git, but that isn't enough.
>>>>>> One needs to install the firmware and test the hardware afterwards..
>>>>>> and that assumes you can assemble a REX in the first place.  Plus you
>>>>>> need test jigs to do all that.  Feasible, but a significant investment
>>>>>> in time and learning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest issues I see-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * fine pitch soldering
>>>>>> * grinding the PCBs down so that they can be plugged
>>>>>> * sourcing spacers - I slab cedar strips using my table saw.... 0.050
>>>>>> inches
>>>>>> * firmware - it is stable now, but in general you must understand
>>>>>> RTL,VHDL and CPLD programming
>>>>>> * REX software is quite complicated.  it gets right in to the OS via 4
>>>>>> separate hooks and significantly affects boot up.  it can be a real
>>>>>> challenge to debug.
>>>>>> * Keeping ahead of changes and how they work in all 5 supported models
>>>>>> is a bit of work also.  One needs to have hardware examples of all 5
>>>>>> models to do the testing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The equipment I rely on in general includes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) a bench grinder/sander
>>>>>> 2) a 15x binocular microscope
>>>>>> 3) a Tek scope
>>>>>> 4) a logic analyzer
>>>>>> 5) my hardware jig(s) for installing firmware and testing the hardware
>>>>>> (M100, PC8201 variant)
>>>>>> 6) xilinx CPLD toolset (easy to get but you have to learn to compile
>>>>>> and install CPLD code
>>>>>> 7) a basic weller temp controlled iron + solder paste in a syringe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there were zero design changes, here are the steps to assemble a
>>>>>> working REX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1)  assemble REX - grind PCB, hand solder CPLD, Flash, power supply,
>>>>>> clean.
>>>>>> 2)  install firmware - using Xilinx tools and known good firmware
>>>>>> binary, install binary image into CPLD.  REX mounted in test jig.
>>>>>> There are 3 firmware versions. M100, T200, NEC.
>>>>>> 3)  test REX - run stand alone test software on appropriate Model T /
>>>>>> rework failed units.
>>>>>> 4)  install application
>>>>>> 5)  final test
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further development of REX is more involved obviously.  Maybe at this
>>>>>> point future development is limited to software only, and it may be
>>>>>> safe to assume the hardware and firmware are fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyhow, as I said, it is feasible to transfer this to someone, but I
>>>>>> feel like it is a fair bit of work to transfer as well!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 8:26 PM, John R. Hogerhuis <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I think the only fundamental problem right now is availability, since
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>  has been busy with real life. Rex is not something you can just git
>>>>>>> clone
>>>>>>>  and make. Part of it could be, of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Component ordering, fabrication, assembly, test, order taking, shipping
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>  the current issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  -- John.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

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