Some countries don't allow sale of NiCd batteries for environmental reasons 
(Cadmium.....).  Like the one I live in.

Från: M100 [] för Mike Stein 
Skickat: den 12 mars 2018 22:29
Ämne: Re: [M100] batteries...


There are some differences between NiCd and NiMH charging recommendations, but 
according to the Panasonic literature the standby Trickle charging currents are 
exactly the same.

----- Original Message -----
From: Fugu ME100<>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

Where is that stated about Trickle Charging,  I don’t see it in the M102 manual?

I can find the section on pg 1-7 where it says "Charging current 1.2mA (typ)".  
 Which is in line with an average current however it will vary considerably 
depending on charge state of the battery.  Fully charged the current will be 
300uA it cannot be more.

So the impact will be well below any but the worst quality batteries – which 
may have other issues :)

From: M100 
on behalf of George Michael Rimakis 
Reply-To: <<>>
Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:11 PM
To: <<>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

The M102 service manual says the trickle charge is at 1.2mA, and some batteries 
may not be as tolerant.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Fugu ME100 
<<>> wrote:
I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to find.  
Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer recommendations.  This doc 
is pretty good<>
  If you look at the Recommended Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives this 
recommendation on trickle charging:

'Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than 0.025C (C/40) is 
recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is preferred to reduce the 
negative effects overcharging.’

The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge < self 
discharge rate things should be fine.

Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode, 
resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current is 
~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the 
recommendations of Energizer the charge should be <C/40 for a trickle charge. 
The battery is ~60mAh, which gives ~1.5mA trickle or maintenance charge well 
above that produced in the M100, in fact the NiMH might sell discharge at that 
rate.   So I went ahead and updated the batteries.

If you trickle charge at very high rates then NiMH might fail earlier but so 
too would NiCd.   The initial charge might be slower for NiMH compared to NiCd 
but that is not really an issue in this application it is merely acting as a 
backup battery.

From: M100 
on behalf of George Michael Rimakis 
Reply-To: <<>>
Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
To: <<>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can tolerate is 
a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson 
<<>> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
> think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
> replaced under the battery door.

I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself 
struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and 
when they were done...


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