Good idea. We could write a blog like what they have for orca. That way members could read and edit each other's work and make improvements or suggest alternatives. On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:32 PM, kaare dehard wrote:
> > Also, if more documentation is required, Really what would stop one or > two of us from building a document ourselves and making it available? > If we want to leave feature implimentation to apple, between most of > us on the list proactive written documentation available and offered > to apple to distribute might provide the much needed touch that some > of the blind community may prefer from their own members. > > Just a thought. > On 12-Jun-09, at 8:42 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> >> I totally agree. I think the VO quick start that exists in Leopard is >> enough, because it shows you how to navigate all kinds of controls, >> which in the end are the ones you find all over OS X and most >> applications. So what's wrong with it? Personally I found it very >> useful, along with the keyboard help feature. When I first started >> using a Mac, I could do pretty much everything after a couple of >> hours >> working on it. I mean I don't think more documentation would hurt, >> but >> I would rather let those people work on actual features than putting >> them to write documentation... >> On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> >>> I think what is important is you learn how to navigate with VO and >>> then learn the applications as would any other user regardless of >>> their ability or disability. I may be recalling incorrectly since it >>> has been years since I bothered reading the manual for Window-EYes, >>> but I think generally it instructed me on how to use WE and not on >>> how >>> to use all the applications. Now it is possible because the keys >>> required for WE possibly change some behavior of an app, they might >>> have touched on the differences, but gee you know I couldn't tell >>> you >>> what impact the windows-based screen reader has on the windows >>> experience. :) I understand some of what you are saying, but yet >>> once >>> you learn VO, you'll learn the apps very quickly. I started off when >>> VO was really new, so I really had to read what info I could find >>> and >>> learn from there. You know it wasn't to bad and really hey when you >>> think about it, a number of people have produced tutorials on how to >>> use this or that screen reader and this or that application, sold >>> them, and made money. You can do the same thing as well. Wait, >>> maybe I >>> should be doing that. :) >>> >>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am >>>> doing >>>> much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. >>>> This >>>> guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today >>>> and >>>> it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all >>>> that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't >>>> mentioned >>>> accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a >>>> bit >>>> concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I >>>> think >>>> the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone >>>> should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I >>>> feel >>>> they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, >>>> sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more >>>> things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe >>>> give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and >>>> maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure if >>>> this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a >>>> welcome >>>> dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. >>>>> >>>>> My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second >>>>> was a >>>>> dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was my >>>>> next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I >>>>> got >>>>> myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to >>>>> voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took only 2 >>>>> or >>>>> 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier to >>>>> learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were merely >>>>> experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. >>>>> Editing >>>>> with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was >>>>> before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were >>>>> handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the >>>>> article >>>>> but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this >>>>> fellow >>>>> writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences and >>>>> giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy >>>>> for >>>>> him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). >>>>> On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> When you first started to use Windows were you new to >>>>>> computers? I >>>>>> mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before >>>>>> hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to >>>>>> learn >>>>>> because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you >>>>>> started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you >>>>>> started >>>>>> to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to learn >>>>>> but >>>>>> I may have a valid point also. >>>>>> >>>>>> At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it did >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has to >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> closely related, where the experience of the windows >>>>>>> environement >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the best >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> to say it is the screen reader does present things a little >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely >>>>>>> represents >>>>>>> the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made >>>>>>> sense. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release >>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>> 06/02/09 06:47:00 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
