Hi, We have a Wiki available.
Regards, Alex, On 12-Jun-09, at 8:39 PM, Justin Harford wrote: > > Good idea. We could write a blog like what they have for orca. That > way members could read and edit each other's work and make > improvements or suggest alternatives. > On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:32 PM, kaare dehard wrote: > >> >> Also, if more documentation is required, Really what would stop one >> or >> two of us from building a document ourselves and making it available? >> If we want to leave feature implimentation to apple, between most of >> us on the list proactive written documentation available and offered >> to apple to distribute might provide the much needed touch that some >> of the blind community may prefer from their own members. >> >> Just a thought. >> On 12-Jun-09, at 8:42 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> >>> >>> I totally agree. I think the VO quick start that exists in Leopard >>> is >>> enough, because it shows you how to navigate all kinds of controls, >>> which in the end are the ones you find all over OS X and most >>> applications. So what's wrong with it? Personally I found it very >>> useful, along with the keyboard help feature. When I first started >>> using a Mac, I could do pretty much everything after a couple of >>> hours >>> working on it. I mean I don't think more documentation would hurt, >>> but >>> I would rather let those people work on actual features than putting >>> them to write documentation... >>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I think what is important is you learn how to navigate with VO and >>>> then learn the applications as would any other user regardless of >>>> their ability or disability. I may be recalling incorrectly since >>>> it >>>> has been years since I bothered reading the manual for Window-EYes, >>>> but I think generally it instructed me on how to use WE and not on >>>> how >>>> to use all the applications. Now it is possible because the keys >>>> required for WE possibly change some behavior of an app, they might >>>> have touched on the differences, but gee you know I couldn't tell >>>> you >>>> what impact the windows-based screen reader has on the windows >>>> experience. :) I understand some of what you are saying, but yet >>>> once >>>> you learn VO, you'll learn the apps very quickly. I started off >>>> when >>>> VO was really new, so I really had to read what info I could find >>>> and >>>> learn from there. You know it wasn't to bad and really hey when you >>>> think about it, a number of people have produced tutorials on how >>>> to >>>> use this or that screen reader and this or that application, sold >>>> them, and made money. You can do the same thing as well. Wait, >>>> maybe I >>>> should be doing that. :) >>>> >>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am >>>>> doing >>>>> much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. >>>>> This >>>>> guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today >>>>> and >>>>> it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all >>>>> that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't >>>>> mentioned >>>>> accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a >>>>> bit >>>>> concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I >>>>> think >>>>> the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone >>>>> should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I >>>>> feel >>>>> they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, >>>>> sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more >>>>> things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe >>>>> give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and >>>>> maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure >>>>> if >>>>> this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a >>>>> welcome >>>>> dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second >>>>>> was a >>>>>> dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was >>>>>> my >>>>>> next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I >>>>>> got >>>>>> myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to >>>>>> voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took >>>>>> only 2 >>>>>> or >>>>>> 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were >>>>>> merely >>>>>> experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. >>>>>> Editing >>>>>> with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was >>>>>> before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were >>>>>> handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the >>>>>> article >>>>>> but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this >>>>>> fellow >>>>>> writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences >>>>>> and >>>>>> giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy >>>>>> for >>>>>> him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). >>>>>> On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When you first started to use Windows were you new to >>>>>>> computers? I >>>>>>> mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before >>>>>>> hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you >>>>>>> started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you >>>>>>> started >>>>>>> to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I may have a valid point also. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it >>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> closely related, where the experience of the windows >>>>>>>> environement >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the >>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> to say it is the screen reader does present things a little >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely >>>>>>>> represents >>>>>>>> the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made >>>>>>>> sense. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release >>>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>>> 06/02/09 06:47:00 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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