A blog would be great for intermediate users, and I agree hole heartedly, it's more accessible than a wiki. However, we have to think perhaps about getting to those who can't navigate the net just yet as well. Perhaps working with apple to supplement their docs as well, then after the less advanced stuff is there, using as part of the tutorial the blog to not only learn more, but how to learn navigation as well as an added bonus... Here's some researching tips:).
On 12-Jun-09, at 11:39 PM, Justin Harford wrote: > > Good idea. We could write a blog like what they have for orca. That > way members could read and edit each other's work and make > improvements or suggest alternatives. > On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:32 PM, kaare dehard wrote: > >> >> Also, if more documentation is required, Really what would stop one >> or >> two of us from building a document ourselves and making it available? >> If we want to leave feature implimentation to apple, between most of >> us on the list proactive written documentation available and offered >> to apple to distribute might provide the much needed touch that some >> of the blind community may prefer from their own members. >> >> Just a thought. >> On 12-Jun-09, at 8:42 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> >>> >>> I totally agree. I think the VO quick start that exists in Leopard >>> is >>> enough, because it shows you how to navigate all kinds of controls, >>> which in the end are the ones you find all over OS X and most >>> applications. So what's wrong with it? Personally I found it very >>> useful, along with the keyboard help feature. When I first started >>> using a Mac, I could do pretty much everything after a couple of >>> hours >>> working on it. I mean I don't think more documentation would hurt, >>> but >>> I would rather let those people work on actual features than putting >>> them to write documentation... >>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I think what is important is you learn how to navigate with VO and >>>> then learn the applications as would any other user regardless of >>>> their ability or disability. I may be recalling incorrectly since >>>> it >>>> has been years since I bothered reading the manual for Window-EYes, >>>> but I think generally it instructed me on how to use WE and not on >>>> how >>>> to use all the applications. Now it is possible because the keys >>>> required for WE possibly change some behavior of an app, they might >>>> have touched on the differences, but gee you know I couldn't tell >>>> you >>>> what impact the windows-based screen reader has on the windows >>>> experience. :) I understand some of what you are saying, but yet >>>> once >>>> you learn VO, you'll learn the apps very quickly. I started off >>>> when >>>> VO was really new, so I really had to read what info I could find >>>> and >>>> learn from there. You know it wasn't to bad and really hey when you >>>> think about it, a number of people have produced tutorials on how >>>> to >>>> use this or that screen reader and this or that application, sold >>>> them, and made money. You can do the same thing as well. Wait, >>>> maybe I >>>> should be doing that. :) >>>> >>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Reiser wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was confused about the editing thing as well at first but am >>>>> doing >>>>> much better now I think. I still goof up sometimes but oh well. >>>>> This >>>>> guy obviously did not read the vo manual as I looked at it today >>>>> and >>>>> it's very detailed in going over the desktop orientation and all >>>>> that. They don't describe how to quit apps and itunes isn't >>>>> mentioned >>>>> accept a little bit but otherwise it is very well written. I'm a >>>>> bit >>>>> concerned about Apple's documentation that comes with mac, and I >>>>> think >>>>> the tutorial should be more interactive in the sense that someone >>>>> should demonstrate basic tasks while the person follows along. I >>>>> feel >>>>> they should cover basic tasks like using finder, serfing the web, >>>>> sending email, word processing, and itunes, maybe one or two more >>>>> things. They should also enclude the vo manual with mac and maybe >>>>> give a short prompt when vo starts to press a key to read help and >>>>> maybe brief instructions on how to read it. I'm really not sure >>>>> if >>>>> this would be too much info or not, however. They will have a >>>>> welcome >>>>> dialog in snowlepard, so this is a good step. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> On Jun 11, 2009, at 4:59 PM, kaare dehard wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting, so I'll explore my own journey with you. >>>>>> >>>>>> My first talking computer ironicly was an apple ii e. My second >>>>>> was a >>>>>> dos machine. Neither of these gave me much trouble. Windows was >>>>>> my >>>>>> next stop, and with no prejudgement I worked for a week before I >>>>>> got >>>>>> myself grounded. Windows 95 98 and xp as well. I then moved on to >>>>>> voiceover for both financial and technical reasons. It took >>>>>> only 2 >>>>>> or >>>>>> 3 days to get my feet, but I couldn't tell you if it was easier >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn, or if my difficulties with jaws and window-eyes were >>>>>> merely >>>>>> experience not understanding differences between cli and gui. >>>>>> Editing >>>>>> with the mac gave me more problems than with windows but that was >>>>>> before someone explained the differences in how the cursors were >>>>>> handled. This is not a reporting error, as sugestive in the >>>>>> article >>>>>> but a different method of cursor tracking and usage. If this >>>>>> fellow >>>>>> writing Was truly interested in understanding the differences >>>>>> and >>>>>> giving the program a fair crack, it would have been just as easy >>>>>> for >>>>>> him to take advantage of the good help available on this list:). >>>>>> On 11-Jun-09, at 9:20 AM, Dean Wilcox wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When you first started to use Windows were you new to >>>>>>> computers? I >>>>>>> mean you didn't use Lunux or an older flavour of Mac before >>>>>>> hand? I'm asking as I wonder if you found the Mac quicker to >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> because you had a better grasp of computers in general when you >>>>>>> started with the Mac, something you may not have had when you >>>>>>> started >>>>>>> to use Windows. I'm not suggesting the Mac isn't easier to >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I may have a valid point also. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 01:04 11/06/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You know what was so funny to me is I have been using the Mac >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> 2005 and quite honestly there was a learning curve, but it took >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> considerably less time to get up to speed on the Mac than it >>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me to master Windows and Window-Eyes. I think a lot of it has >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> with the fact that the experience of the Mac and VoiceOver are >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> closely related, where the experience of the windows >>>>>>>> environement >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the screen reader are not going to be the same. I guess the >>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> to say it is the screen reader does present things a little >>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>> than what a sighted user may experience and VO more closely >>>>>>>> represents >>>>>>>> the experience a sighted user gets. Hmmm, hope that made >>>>>>>> sense. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release >>>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>>> 06/02/09 06:47:00 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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