I think the issue of charging and using the port though is not equivalent to
the loss of braille access. Loss of braille access is an all or nothing deal.
The charging thing is an inconvenience at worst and at best a product for
someone to produce to solve the problem. There are many people who might want
to use power and this port at the same time. Think about it, the folks at the
charging case companies definitely want to see this problem solved. So there
are much larger markets who would have concerns here as well as the deaf blind.
Here’s another thing we’re not considering, with no more headphone jack
there’s no need for an audio stage in the phone any more. SO you’re no longer
powering amplifiers and analog convertors, filters, no more digital signal
processing etc. You have the speakers of course but you don’t have to drive
any of that stuff if you’re a deaf user any more. Lightning all the way out to
the end means that power is either delivered more efficiently but still powered
by the phone or powered by an internal source like bluetooth headphones. So we
might actually get more battery life with out so much analog.
If it turns out that charging and audio isn’t available and other changes don’t
offset the impact enough that it impacts the deaf blind then by all means put
me down as against but I don’t think that’s going to be the case, I don’t think
this community will be left out in the cold on this one.
Here’s another thing that folks are leaving out, wireless charging. Macrumors
has had mention on and off and on again of wireless charging. You might be
plugged in to your port and still charging wirelessly, that might also work.
I’m just saying this problem doesn’t require Brave Heart like speeches from
Jonathan calling the world is going to end because progress is moving on and
adapters are changing. Even a few minutes of googling finds products that
would solve this problem today.:) It’s just a silly thing to work your self up
over when the problem doesn’t exist until next week at a minimum, if it does at
all and it seems to me adapters exist today that allow for power and audio or
did all the sound docks in the world suddenly just stop working?
This just sounds like a non problem or one that’s solved week 1.
And regardless of the rhetoric, no I do not want to see any part of our
community cut off.
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
> I agree that we don't know what the adapter will do, since it's not out.
> However, should it turn out to be the case that the adapter will not allow
> for simultaneous headphone usage and charging, this would be a problem for
> the use case the Jonathan outlined, would you not agree? Therefore, I don't
> see this as a case of arguing over nothing. It is a case of a minority of
> users being seriously adversely affected by this design decision I remember a
> few iterations of iOS ago, Apple broke the driver for one of the braille
> displays it had been supporting. I think it was a hymns product, but I'm not
> sure which one. That meant that folks who have invested a good deal of money
> in a particular product which had been working with Apple devices found
> themselves unable to access the device if they were dependent on braille. The
> breakage was brought to apples attention, and they did nothing about it for
> months until the next major release of iOS occurred. Now you could argue that
> this was a small subset of users. But the breakage effectively denied the use
> of the product to that small subset of users. It seems to me that one of the
> things you do when you make a serious commitment to accessibility is you
> promise not to break the devices people have invested in and make it
> impossible for them to use them as they have been doing. Earlier this year,
> when Apple released one of its upgrades that bricked some iPad pros, they
> rushed out a fix, as they should have. I often hear it said that blind
> people complain too much. We got what we wanted in the form of mainstream
> excess ability. Now we have to wait for our bugs to be fixed along with the
> bugs that everybody else is waiting to be fixed. I understand that to a
> point. But when you have a bug that so adversely affects a group of users,
> and you say you were serious about accessibility, then I think that you have
> to make good on your commitment. Again, since we don't know what this adapter
> will do, we can't say for sure whether Apple has caused a serious problem or
> not. But once the adapter is out, if the group of blind users who are also
> hard of hearing is seriously adversely affected, it seems to me that Apple
> has in fact broken its commitment.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net
> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote:
>
>> WTF is an arrogrent? Is that like a loud Mexican a loud immigrant? My
>> mother had a bunch of them move in across the street, loud parties but man
>> the best bbq.
>>
>>
>> That being said, yes, you were being a troll then and I’m sorry to say
>> you’re still under the bridge.
>>
>> You’re all bitching over a product that doesn’t exist yet. We already know
>> that an adapter is being provided but that’s not good enough. We’re all
>> supposed to hold up civilization because you won’t use a quarter inch piece.
>> We’re not fighting for civil rights, we’re not fighting over whether people
>> are being killed in the streets by police gone mad, we’re fighting over the
>> fact you might have to use a small plastic piece. I’m just calling you and
>> Jonathan out for the ridiculousness of A. bitching about something that’s
>> not out yet and B. about such a trivial issue .
>> I respect Jonathan a great deal and will tell him if I disagree with
>> his positions and in this case I do. They are well presented but I think a
>> decent means of access is being provided that doesn’t injure the deaf blind
>> user community so there’s a non issue. I’m sorry if that gets your panties
>> in a wad but there it is. I think his points were off base but that’s me.
>> I think Jonathan is a very smart well spoken and well informed person who
>> can defend himself if he feels the need. I realize under the bridge it
>> might be hard to hear down there but the point is while I vigorously
>> disagree with his points and assertions I most certainly am not saying he
>> doesn’t have the right to his opinion and even go so far as to say I respect
>> where that opinion is coming from I just disagree.
>>
>> So what ever invisible man in the sky you believe in help us if we don’t
>> agree and fall in to your little troll shaped mold!
>> I’d rather live in a world where we can all hash it out, beat around our
>> ideas and have a beer after, some of you are so thin skinned, so literal and
>> so brainwashed it makes me sad.
>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 2:24 PM, David Griffith <daj.griff...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe this is the arrogrant person who described me as a troll because
>>> I tried to represent the issues of hearing impaired issues so I am not at
>>> all surprised by the ignorance and callousness of this reply to Jonathon.
>>>
>>>
>>> Heaven help us if this is how members of our community turn of on deaf
>>> users.
>>>
>>>
>>> David Griffith
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/09/2016 13:35, Scott Granados wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jonathan, now you’re just writing stuff to read it later, that’s just
>>>> nutty. You make it like some huge personal assault against the great and
>>>> mighty Jonathan Mosen, please, we’ve seen an adapter is going to exist so
>>>> you have your precious 1960s technology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the end, probably 3 people are going to care about this issue over all
>>>> and all 3 are on this list.:)
>>>>
>>>> The average consumer doesn’t care what shape or size plug they use as long
>>>> as when they plug it in the little light goes on and stuff works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org
>>>>> <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep fighting the good fight David. This is far too important an issue to
>>>>> give up. Our money is as good as anyone else's and we must never give up
>>>>> advocating for recognition of our need to be able to use our devices with
>>>>> efficiency and privacy while also charging them. If it turns out that
>>>>> this need has been met, then it will in part be due to courageous people
>>>>> like you who have spoken up.
>>>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>>>> Mosen Consulting
>>>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>>>> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/>
>>>>>> On 2/09/2016, at 11:05 AM, David Griffith <daj.griff...@gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As another deaf iPhone user I agree with everything you say but I htink
>>>>>> you will probably not get that much understanding. I tried to explain
>>>>>> on this list about how a wired headset was essential for me but was
>>>>>> accused bizarrely of being a troll because I dared to criticise an Apple
>>>>>> innovation.
>>>>>> This did cause another another poster to comment that ironically some
>>>>>> people are deaf to the concerns of those of with hearing impairments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Griffith
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/09/2016 20:07, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Mary, unfortunately this issue doesn't affect the Deaf community in
>>>>>>> the same way as it affects blind people who wear hearing aids and
>>>>>>> require decent latency. And the fact that those of us who are affected
>>>>>>> are such a minority makes us more vulnerable. You can be sure I am
>>>>>>> considering my legal options under legislation here.
>>>>>>> A standard hearing aid wearer uses their phone actively far less than a
>>>>>>> blind person who wears a hearing aid. For example, if a Bluetooth
>>>>>>> solution is being used, after a standard hearing aid wearer has
>>>>>>> finished their call or isn't listening to music, the technology goes
>>>>>>> into standby and uses very little energy. A blind person has VO talking
>>>>>>> a lot of the time if they're using their device for tasks like reading
>>>>>>> and creating documents, email etc, so the impact is much greater.
>>>>>>> Even if people are willing to accept an adapter jutting out of their
>>>>>>> phone with its resultant potential to be lost or bent, the adapter will
>>>>>>> not solve the problem entirely if it means that you can't charge your
>>>>>>> device and use headphones at the same time. I travel long distances for
>>>>>>> example, often with flights over 12 hours long. I regularly take my
>>>>>>> Anka battery with me and charge the phone while I use it to compensate
>>>>>>> for the inaccessible in-flight entertainment system. It's important to
>>>>>>> me to have a full charge when I reach my destination. Based on the
>>>>>>> information we have, it looks like you can either listen to wired
>>>>>>> headphones or charge, not both.
>>>>>>> That means that every VoiceOver user who chooses a wired option appears
>>>>>>> to have to choose between privacy and charge.
>>>>>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>>>>>> Mosen Consulting
>>>>>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>>>>>> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/>
>>>>>>>> On 2/09/2016, at 4:41 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, just to be clear, I personally would be against this move, if it
>>>>>>>> means that they' very large hard of hearing community can't use
>>>>>>>> hearing aids on iPhones anymore. That seems like such an incredibly
>>>>>>>> stupid move on Apple's part, that I am tempted to just believe that
>>>>>>>> they wouldn't do it if they didn't have a workaround that would work
>>>>>>>> for people who use hearing aids. The hard of hearing community is
>>>>>>>> orders of magnitude larger then the blind community. So Shirley, this
>>>>>>>> adapter must be providing someway for people who use hearing aids to
>>>>>>>> keep on doing so. What am I missing here? I remember sometime ago,
>>>>>>>> when the idea that the headphone jack would go away first came out,
>>>>>>>> Jonathan wrote a very impassioned piece on this subject, arguing that
>>>>>>>> this was a very bad idea because of the use case of hearing aids. Now
>>>>>>>> Apple is going to do it anyway, but they're offering an adapter. Why
>>>>>>>> doesn't that solve the problem? I understand why Bluetooth is not a
>>>>>>>> good alternative, given Jonathan's comments on battery drain and the
>>>>>>>> well-known problem for voiceover users with latency. It's still really
>>>>>>>> bad, at least on my phone with my legend. I would not want to have to
>>>>>>>> type on that system for anything more than a word or two, because the
>>>>>>>> latency between when you touch a letter and when you hear it is much
>>>>>>>> too long.
>>>>>>>> Mary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mary, you’re exactly right and points well stated as always. Here’s
>>>>>>>>> another point to consider, suppose we add wireless charging. Now, you
>>>>>>>>> could have a brick with no ports what so ever formed from one solid
>>>>>>>>> piece of material. You could almost grow the casing and have a super
>>>>>>>>> durable waterproof phone with no openings at all. The entire surface
>>>>>>>>> could be a screen. Not needing ports is a good thing over all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>>>> Of course, only time will tell. But I think you are
>>>>>>>>>> wrong about the disappearing headphone
>>>>>>>>>> jack. For one thing, Samsung put back the storage card thing, but
>>>>>>>>>> did not put back the user replaceable battery. Also, if the other
>>>>>>>>>> rumor is true, Apple will be including compatible earbuds with the
>>>>>>>>>> new phone, as well as an adapter to make it possible for people to
>>>>>>>>>> use other headphones. Given the prevalence of Bluetooth these days,
>>>>>>>>>> I suspect that the headphone jack will in fact be gone from iPhones
>>>>>>>>>> forever. Other device makers are already moving in this direction.
>>>>>>>>>> So it isn't just Apple. In fact, they will not be the first ones to
>>>>>>>>>> market without a headphone jack on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:05 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, as for me, I'm going to sit back and see how the market
>>>>>>>>>>> accepts the new iPhone 7 trans a separate earphone jack.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When Samsung attempted to make its devices thinner by (1) removing
>>>>>>>>>>> the removable battery and (2) removing the ability to add auxiliary
>>>>>>>>>>> memory to its flagship phones, it soon reversed its decision as the
>>>>>>>>>>> market, effectively, rejected the devices in favor of other
>>>>>>>>>>> companies who kept those features.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of years ago, when Apple decided to remove the ability for
>>>>>>>>>>> iOS devices to have their photo content immediately available to PC
>>>>>>>>>>> users upon attaching the device to the computer, the marketplace
>>>>>>>>>>> went crazy and vowed to turn to Android if Apple insisted on
>>>>>>>>>>> forcing people to use iTunes in order to manage photos.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like Samsung, Apple immediately reversed itself by restoring this
>>>>>>>>>>> feature in the subsequent release of iTunes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I'll just wait and see for, unless 7 is a complete hit,
>>>>>>>>>>> something tells me that iPhone 8 will bring the jack back (smile).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Bill Gallik
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:43 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: MacVisionaries E-Mail List
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue
>>>>>>>>>>> on the iPhone seven
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When all the “hubbub” concerning Apple removing the earphone jack
>>>>>>>>>>> first appeared I was certain they (Apple) was going to provide an
>>>>>>>>>>> adapter so potential customers would be able to use their existing
>>>>>>>>>>> earphones with the iPhone 7. This coming to light does not surprise
>>>>>>>>>>> me in the least.
>>>>>>>>>>> ****************
>>>>>>>>>>> - Bill & Leader Dog Holland
>>>>>>>>>>> - "The problem with people who have no vices is that you can be
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty sure they are going to have some pretty annoying virtues."
>>>>>>>>>>> - Elizabeth Taylor, 20th Century Screen Actress, (1932-2011)--
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara
>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>>
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> ---
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>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries
>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries
>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries
> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries
list.
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
