It’s good to express an opinion, calmly and with a little thought. What is not so good is that people on this list insult each other and treat each other as if there were a lot of kids on this list. May be some of you should grow up and let’s see what happens, not rumours but the facts. That’s the problem some silly website put rumours for some stupid people to get a B in their bonnet, and then we get silliness on here.
At one time this list was wonderful but we’ve got some rude people on here. If anyone has any constructive stuff to say, say it or just leave it at that. Sorry, someone had to say this. If anyone has anything further to say after what I’ve written, please write to me privately or flame if you must if that’s what people on here like doing. Kawal. > On 3 Sep 2016, at 14:16, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well said Jonathan. You are quite right to stand up and speak your mind on > what is an important issue for people like yourself who have a hearing > impairment. This is not something that impacts me personally, but thankfully > I have that very human trait of being able to put myself in the shoes of > those it does. > > Furthermore, I do not have any shares in the monolith we have all come to > know as 'Apple,' and thus care not one jot for justifiable criticism of a > company that has grown far too big for its boots. Such entities tend to treat > individuals, societies and even whole countries and continents with contempt. > They rather stupidly forget the universal law that nothing can expand for > ever. > > So Jonathan, keep up the good work and let no one on this list or any other > intimidate you out of speaking up for what you believe in. > Best Wishes > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Mosen > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 9:17 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on the > iPhone seven > > hi David, there is certainly some bullying and personal attack that goes on > here, but sadly that's the nature of a lot of email lists. People think they > can drown people out because they have nothing better to do than to post > multiple messages that become increasingly personal as the flaws in their > argument are exposed. Personal attack is always the resort of those whose > argument is weak. > What I will say to you though is that as you can see from the list, there are > a number of us who have been trying to make a difference, hopefully to fend > off a situation where we have to wait some time before our use case is > addressed. I hope very much we've succeeded. If not, we keep going. > It was interesting to read a piece yesterday that backed up something I said > on my own blog earlier this year. I feel sure that Apple has leaked the > information about the lack of a headphone jack deliberately. They know it's a > contentious issue, even among those who don't get their entire screen output > via it as we do. They're hoping that by letting it leak, the majority of the > anger will have subsided by release time. After all, it's an unusual > situation where the thing most people are talking about is actually the > removal of something, not a great new feature. > Apple do miscalculate from time to time and it's possible they have done so > this time. Even if that proves not to be the case, Apple must obey the law > like everyone else, and there is legislation like section 255 of the US > Telecommunications Act that may make legal action possible if Apple makes > things less accessible for a vulnerable group of users. Each country also has > its own legislation. > In the end, what people say on this list makes not a scrap of difference and > I've been focussing my energies on preparing for what I can do if we as blind > hearing aid wearers can't use VO and charge our devices at the same time. I > spoke up because I knew that there would be people here who were intimidated > by some of the dismissive language, and I'm glad it's made you feel like you > have people who get your needs. > > Jonathan Mosen > Mosen Consulting > Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org > > > On 3/09/2016, at 6:24 AM, David Griffith <daj.griff...@gmail.com > <mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I believe this is the arrogrant person who described me as a troll > because I tried to represent the issues of hearing impaired issues so I am > not at all surprised by the ignorance and callousness of this reply to > Jonathon. > > > > > Heaven help us if this is how members of our community turn of on deaf > users. > > > > > David Griffith > > On 02/09/2016 13:35, Scott Granados wrote: > > > Jonathan, now you’re just writing stuff to read it later, > that’s just nutty. You make it like some huge personal assault against the > great and mighty Jonathan Mosen, please, we’ve seen an adapter is going to > exist so you have your precious 1960s technology. > > > In the end, probably 3 people are going to care about this > issue over all and all 3 are on this list.:) > > The average consumer doesn’t care what shape or size plug they > use as long as when they plug it in the little light goes on and stuff works. > > > > On Sep 1, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Jonathan Mosen > <jmo...@mosen.org <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org> > wrote: > > Keep fighting the good fight David. This is far too > important an issue to give up. Our money is as good as anyone else's and we > must never give up advocating for recognition of our need to be able to use > our devices with efficiency and privacy while also charging them. If it turns > out that this need has been met, then it will in part be due to courageous > people like you who have spoken up. > > Jonathan Mosen > Mosen Consulting > Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training > http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> > > > On 2/09/2016, at 11:05 AM, David Griffith > <daj.griff...@gmail.com <mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > As another deaf iPhone user I agree with > everything you say but I htink you will probably not get that much > understanding. I tried to explain on this list about how a wired headset was > essential for me but was accused bizarrely of being a troll because I dared > to criticise an Apple innovation. > This did cause another another poster to > comment that ironically some people are deaf to the concerns of those of with > hearing impairments. > > David Griffith > > On 01/09/2016 20:07, Jonathan Mosen wrote: > > > Hi Mary, unfortunately this issue > doesn't affect the Deaf community in the same way as it affects blind people > who wear hearing aids and require decent latency. And the fact that those of > us who are affected are such a minority makes us more vulnerable. You can be > sure I am considering my legal options under legislation here. > A standard hearing aid wearer uses > their phone actively far less than a blind person who wears a hearing aid. > For example, if a Bluetooth solution is being used, after a standard hearing > aid wearer has finished their call or isn't listening to music, the > technology goes into standby and uses very little energy. A blind person has > VO talking a lot of the time if they're using their device for tasks like > reading and creating documents, email etc, so the impact is much greater. > Even if people are willing to accept an > adapter jutting out of their phone with its resultant potential to be lost or > bent, the adapter will not solve the problem entirely if it means that you > can't charge your device and use headphones at the same time. I travel long > distances for example, often with flights over 12 hours long. I regularly > take my Anka battery with me and charge the phone while I use it to > compensate for the inaccessible in-flight entertainment system. It's > important to me to have a full charge when I reach my destination. Based on > the information we have, it looks like you can either listen to wired > headphones or charge, not both. > That means that every VoiceOver user > who chooses a wired option appears to have to choose between privacy and > charge. > > Jonathan Mosen > Mosen Consulting > Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials > and training > http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> > > > On 2/09/2016, at 4:41 AM, Mary Otten > <motte...@gmail.com <mailto:motte...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Well, just to be clear, I personally > would be against this move, if it means that they' very large hard of hearing > community can't use hearing aids on iPhones anymore. That seems like such an > incredibly stupid move on Apple's part, that I am tempted to just believe > that they wouldn't do it if they didn't have a workaround that would work for > people who use hearing aids. The hard of hearing community is orders of > magnitude larger then the blind community. So Shirley, this adapter must be > providing someway for people who use hearing aids to keep on doing so. What > am I missing here? I remember sometime ago, when the idea that the headphone > jack would go away first came out, Jonathan wrote a very impassioned piece on > this subject, arguing that this was a very bad idea because of the use case > of hearing aids. Now Apple is going to do it anyway, but they're offering an > adapter. Why doesn't that solve the problem? I understand why Bluetooth is > not a good alternative, given Jonathan's comments on battery drain and the > well-known problem for voiceover users with latency. It's still really bad, > at least on my phone with my legend. I would not want to have to type on > that system for anything more than a word or two, because the latency between > when you touch a letter and when you hear it is much too long. > Mary > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 1, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Scott > Granados <sc...@qualityip.net <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net> > wrote: > > Mary, you’re exactly right and points > well stated as always. Here’s another point to consider, suppose we add > wireless charging. Now, you could have a brick with no ports what so ever > formed from one solid piece of material. You could almost grow the casing > and have a super durable waterproof phone with no openings at all. The > entire surface could be a screen. Not needing ports is a good thing over all. > > > > > > On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Mary Otten > <motte...@gmail.com <mailto:motte...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Mark, > Of course, only time will tell. But I > think you are wrong about the disappearing headphone jack. For one thing, > Samsung put back the storage card thing, but did not put back the user > replaceable battery. Also, if the other rumor is true, Apple will be > including compatible earbuds with the new phone, as well as an adapter to > make it possible for people to use other headphones. Given the prevalence of > Bluetooth these days, I suspect that the headphone jack will in fact be gone > from iPhones forever. Other device makers are already moving in this > direction. So it isn't just Apple. In fact, they will not be the first ones > to market without a headphone jack on the phone. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:05 AM, M. Taylor > <mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> > wrote: > > Well, as for me, I'm going to sit back > and see how the market accepts the new iPhone 7 trans a separate earphone > jack. > > When Samsung attempted to make its > devices thinner by (1) removing the removable battery and (2) removing the > ability to add auxiliary memory to its flagship phones, it soon reversed its > decision as the market, effectively, rejected the devices in favor of other > companies who kept those features. > > A couple of years ago, when Apple > decided to remove the ability for iOS devices to have their photo content > immediately available to PC users upon attaching the device to the computer, > the marketplace went crazy and vowed to turn to Android if Apple insisted on > forcing people to use iTunes in order to manage photos. > > Like Samsung, Apple immediately > reversed itself by restoring this feature in the subsequent release of > iTunes. > > So, I'll just wait and see for, unless > 7 is a complete hit, something tells me that iPhone 8 will bring the jack > back (smile). > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gallik > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:43 AM > To: MacVisionaries E-Mail List > Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours > regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on the iPhone seven > > When all the “hubbub” concerning Apple > removing the earphone jack first appeared I was certain they (Apple) was > going to provide an adapter so potential customers would be able to use their > existing earphones with the iPhone 7. This coming to light does not surprise > me in the least. > **************** > - Bill & Leader Dog Holland > - "The problem with people who have no > vices is that you can be pretty sure they are going to have some pretty > annoying virtues." > - Elizabeth Taylor, 20th Century Screen > Actress, (1932-2011)-- > > -- > The following information is important > for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. > > If you have any questions or concerns > about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is > inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than > posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is > Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > > The archives for this list can be > searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you > are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop > receiving emails from it, send an email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . > To post to this group, send email to > macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> . > Visit this group at > https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important > for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. > > If you have any questions or concerns > about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is > inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than > posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is > Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 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