NO problem Dave! :) -Glad I could help! this is one aspect of the Mac which is very important. The idea that there are several ways to do something doesn't need to be confusing.
there are patterns in the system keystrokes on a Mac just like there are on Windows. -And, to be honest, these patterns are actually, in a manner of speaking, more universal on the Mac than on Windows. I.E. Windows Screen readers create the illusion of universality where none actually exists such as in the use of the enter key. while I'm not familiar with the latest versions of Windows, in Win 95 / 98 / XP, the enter key didn't actually open applications or shortcuts if one wasn't using Jaws or WindowEyes. Pressing enter on a shortcut on a Windows desktop used to actually bring up an edit field where you could type a new name for that shortcut. -And, incidentally, this is exactly the same behavior as on a Mac. The Windows screen readers changed some functionality which presented a visually impaired user with a faux sense of the universality of the OS. This isn't the case on the Mac. VO leaves the system keystrokes intact, and simply adds it's own layer of additional keystrokes a user can choose to work with if they like. this gives the added advantage that (if a visually impaired user chooses) they can more easily interact with sighted coworkers / friends / family because other Mac users will be more likely to be familiar with the type of universal keyboard commands for the system as they aren't specialized to the screen reader in use. Does this make sense?… This paradigm also allows one to seamlessly combine system commands and VO commands to achieve their goal as well. Finally, add to this, the ability to create automator / apple scripts which can involve VO and you can see that this can truly be a very powerful platform. Anyway, blah blah blah! :) -AGain, glad I could help and I hope all goes well for you in the presentation!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 17, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Dave Taylor wrote: Now then. I suspected that was the case, but it amazes me that the demos tell you to do things entirely differently. This kind of description is exactly what we need more of. We need to make things as intuitive as possible. You've certainly given me just what I need to make sure our session works, so thank you. -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:03 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically Hi Dave; What you'd like to do in Mail on the Mac in Snow Leopard 10.6.4 with VO, is certainly doable. :) First, simply move to the messages table and then just use plain arrow keys (no VO keys necessary) to move through your message headers. This will read the sender and subject etc. as you move to each message in the table. YOu can also select or deselect as well as rearrange the displayed columns so you can customize what you'd like to hear in what order. Then, to read a message, you need only use the tab key and the message will read automatically. From here, if you delete the message, you'll be automatically placed back in the messages table with the next message highlighted, and you can again simply press tab to read that message. this is a very quick way to go through mail. If you choose not to delete a particular message, you can also use shift tab if you like, to get back to the message table as well, and then simply continue reading your mail as above. HTH and have a lovely day / evening!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 17, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Dave Taylor wrote: Hi Quick Nav certainly sounds excellent but doesn't appear to mimic things like VO J. I in fact instigated the BCAB Apple day in July after Sight Village Birmingham which seems to be very popular, so will be doing exactly what you suggest as well. I'm asking so many questions right now in order to maximise the effectiveness of the day should many people's fears about the presenters be proved right. I don't know who they are but know the people sourcing them will be finding the best they can. Cheers Dave -----Original Message----- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:18 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically Has no one told you about Quick Nav? It sounds like what you're asking for. However, you won't get any idea of VoiceOver by just asking questions. If you can get to an Apple Store or Apple reseller, try one out. Cheers, Anne On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Dave Taylor wrote: > Wish you could lock the VO keys with an arrow based command, that would make > a lot of difference I think! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr. > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:38 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically > > hello; from my experience I generally use vo, which is control plus > option, with the arrow keys, space bar, and shift key. I use tab and > shift tab for some things. I use vo i and vo u a lot for the links > menu and items menu. and if you have the newer ones and are familiar > with using a mouse you can do a lot of things with the track pad > commander feature. good luck with your decision, max > On Jun 17, 2010, at 4:27 AM, Dave Taylor wrote: > >> Here is where I think one of the biggest issues is though. As a >> prospective >> Mac user, from the demos and manuals, there seem to be an awful lot of >> different and often complex keystrokes to do things. I'm not clear >> if one >> needs all of them or if people doing the demos are making things more >> complex than needed, or just not explaining why things are the way >> they are. >> In Windows we can work out which methods to try based on what kind >> of task >> we are doing. We know that you activate things with either enter or >> space, >> both single keystrokes. We know there are many ways to move around, >> but we >> know that we can find most things by exploring menus or tabbing. >> Most times, >> our screen readers know what we are most likely to want to do and >> give us >> the option of automating that task, often on a per application >> basis. They >> can also give us relatively simple keystrokes on a per application >> basis to >> do tasks specific to that application. >> >> It comes across that with a Mac you have at least three different >> way to >> select things and that only one of them will work in a given >> situation. It >> comes across that you have to navigate relatively complex screens with >> multi-finger keystrokes to do what you can often do with one single >> keystroke in Windows, specific questions in a separate message, and >> it comes >> across that there are a lot of situations when a Windows screen >> reader would >> automate something that you have to tell VO to do. >> >> Be assured, I raise these points not in opposition to converting, >> I'm here >> because I'm seriously thinking that when this computer goes, the >> next one >> will be a Mac, but for others thinking of converting, I hope the >> answers >> people give to these points will reassure them and hopefully be >> reflected in >> some sort of searchable tips and tricks kind of website. I very much >> want to >> know what's possible, not seem in opposition. >> >> Cheers >> Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman >> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:31 AM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: How To Get VoiceOver To Read Mail Messages Automatically >> >> Yeah, I fell into that trap early on with VO coming from Jaws. Now, >> when I >> pick up my windows laptop, I have to remind myself where the tab key >> is and >> not to grab the control and windows key with the arrows. It's very >> disorienting some times. LOL!!!!! >> On Jun 16, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Anne Robertson wrote: >> >>> Hello Dave, >>> >>> You can set VO to interact automatically when you tab to a field >>> where >> this is appropriate, but tabbing isn't always the best way to >> navigate with >> VO. Many ex-JAWS users get themselves into a muddle by tabbing >> everywhere. >> As a very very long-term Mac user, the tab key is the last thing I >> think >> about for navigation. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Anne >>> >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Dave Taylor wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Does tabbing around not make VO automatically interact? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >> . >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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