Well, I saw the macs in my own schools starting in about 1986 when I was in second grade. But as I said, my children, the oldest of whom is eight, use macs in their school. I checked into it, and the entire district as well as several surrounding it also use macs.
Friendly, Chris On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:08 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > I don't know, > > The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old. This was in 1994. > all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one. The public > libraries all use windows PCs as well. How far back are you guys talking > about since you've seen Macs in schools? I don't mean to be rude but, if > your using your experiences from what you used 20 years ago I don't know how > valid that is. > On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: > >> Not totally sure on that minority claim. >> fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated >> apple computers to schools around the country. >> I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we >> had were apple computers. >> You might be surprised how many schools are so equip. >> Karen >> >> >> On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote: >> >>> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh >>> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching. >>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority. >>>> It really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. >>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote: >>>> >>>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high >>>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around >>>>> here, are Mac-based. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between >>>>> the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader >>>>> companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for >>>>> putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot >>>>> potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project. >>>>> >>>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen >>>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley >>>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while >>>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to >>>>> insist on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly >>>>> irrelevant to them. >>>>> >>>>> Bryan >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at >>>>>> hand. If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers >>>>>> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why >>>>>> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the >>>>>> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so. And if it >>>>>> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a >>>>>> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without >>>>>> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be >>>>>> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their >>>>>> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax >>>>>> dollars and marketshare is all about? In my humble opinion, for what >>>>>> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market >>>>>> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and >>>>>> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly. >>>>>> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000 >>>>>> to $12,000 dollars at a time. In Alaska, for example, the biggest >>>>>> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby >>>>>> boomers who are about to reach retirement age. We have no school for >>>>>> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind >>>>>> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them >>>>>> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could >>>>>> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of >>>>>> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis >>>>>> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out. Richie Gardenhire, >>>>>> Anchorage, Alaska. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they >>>>>> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want. That's why >>>>>> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA. For one thing I don't need it and >>>>>> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but >>>>>> FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed >>>>>> market. I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating >>>>>> that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a home electronics >>>>>> ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if >>>>>> ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough >>>>>> of them to make it worth their while. There is a cell phone put out >>>>>> by Capital Accessibility in Europe. I've seen one and it's no big >>>>>> deal. The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or >>>>>> anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone. It's built like >>>>>> a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very >>>>>> robotic. Tell me that's not ridiculous? I don't know that agencies >>>>>> are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our >>>>>> needs that somebody will buy it. Not me. Granted, if more people >>>>>> were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with >>>>>> macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things >>>>>> might come down a bit. That's great about the scanner. I'd better >>>>>> stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing >>>>>> correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time >>>>>>> again. To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has >>>>>>> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted >>>>>>> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for >>>>>>> use by the blind for scanning newspapers, magazines, and othr >>>>>>> documents in their computers or reading machines. Back then, you had >>>>>>> to pay thousands of dolars for the machine, and ys, state agencies >>>>>>> bought it for us, if we were lucky. Now, one can buy a scanner and >>>>>>> to a certain extent, software for scanning pictures, text, and other >>>>>>> document forms into one's PC, at a fraction of the cost it was in the >>>>>>> 1970's. The point here is that it found a marketable niche among the >>>>>>> sighted community, and once they were mass-produced, prices started >>>>>>> coming down and people could afford said scanners. While braille >>>>>>> displays are another issue, there are companies who are working to >>>>>>> make even displays more affordable and accepting to the universal >>>>>>> design market. In the 1980's, Apple tried an experiment, using an >>>>>>> ordinary, dot matrix printer, to produce braille. It wasn't the best >>>>>>> quality braille, but it was an experiment that, had it been popular, >>>>>>> might have flown. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 11:50 AM, carlene knight wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately you have to be realistic though. I agree with you in a >>>>>>> sense, but going into a store and buying JAWS or Window Eyes off of >>>>>>> the shelf? That would be nice? that's one reason I like the Mac and >>>>>>> accessories. The people in the Mac and Apple stores will likely not >>>>>>> be trained for extensive use with Vo, but they should be able to make >>>>>>> sure it works. Try going into a Best Buy and asking them if JFW >>>>>>> works. We probably make up less than 10% of the population so it >>>>>>> isn't going to happen. It would still be expensive, and that's why I >>>>>>> needed the agency to buy it for me. Again don't get me wrong, in a >>>>>>> perfect world that might happen, but we all know the world is far >>>>>>> from perfect. I'm not trying to defend anybody necessarily, and I >>>>>>> don't consider myself dependent because I need assistance from them. >>>>>>> I got my own jobs, take care of myself, go where I need to go etc. A >>>>>>> good organization helps people become independent. I agree that >>>>>>> whenever possible, we should do for ourselves and not be too >>>>>>> dependent on anybody, agencies included. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And for this reason, I feel that many state agencies, (Alaska's, >>>>>>>> being one of them)will be cutting back services, in favor of other >>>>>>>> things and as Mark so eloquently pointed out, the elderly, the poor, >>>>>>>> and the disabled, will be hurt first. I know thisis a different >>>>>>>> subject line from what was originally intended, and I apologize for >>>>>>>> that, but I will say one more thing on this, and that is that I'm in >>>>>>>> favor of universal design so that blind people can walk into any >>>>>>>> store and purchase off-the-shelf software and get it working and we >>>>>>>> not be forced to be co-dependent on state agencies to purchase our >>>>>>>> stuff. I guess, in a way, I'm against state agencies for the >>>>>>>> reasons I stated above. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:32 AM, carlene knight wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Mark: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I certainly don't hold a grudge as everybody is entitled to their >>>>>>>> opinion. However, if it weren't for the Commission for the blind >>>>>>>> here in Oregon, there is no way that I could perform the job I was >>>>>>>> hired for. I had to have a programmer write JAWS scripts so that I >>>>>>>> could get to the buttons, read the drop down boxes that just had >>>>>>>> graphics for names, etc. I couldn't have afforded the thousands of >>>>>>>> dollars that has costed. He is working as we speak since the >>>>>>>> company I work for has changed software and everything we had done >>>>>>>> in the past regarding the original software is now null and void. I >>>>>>>> could have not afforded a Braille display at about 12,000 dollars. >>>>>>>> I can say with certainty that there are few if any companies that >>>>>>>> would provide any of these services. Unfortunately many government >>>>>>>> funded agencies, including the Oregon Commission for the blind do >>>>>>>> know little about Mac accessibility as they have contracts with >>>>>>>> certain vendors, and, face it,whether we like it or not, a majority >>>>>>>> of companies still use Windows based software. My husband and I >>>>>>>> both decided on our own to try the Mac, and though I've had some >>>>>>>> problems, I'm glad I did. I've learned it without an instructor. >>>>>>>> We nearly lost our Commission last summer so when I hear people >>>>>>>> talking about how we shouldn't have government agencies such as >>>>>>>> this, I have to disagree though they do have their problems. Yes, >>>>>>>> some people do rely on others to much, but not all of us do. Like >>>>>>>> you, I grew up in the public school system in a rural area. I was >>>>>>>> born blind also. I'll get off my soap box now. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Mark BurningHawk Baxter wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You, and I to a lesser extent, and others are the exception. I was >>>>>>>>> born blind, didn't go to any institutions for the blind, was raised >>>>>>>>> as an only child, mostly in rural Vermont with minimal help from >>>>>>>>> state agencies. Graduated from Dartmouth when I was 20, again with >>>>>>>>> minimal if any help from agencies--didn't have my first experience >>>>>>>>> with any agencies or institutions for the blind until I was 24, >>>>>>>>> when the Carroll Center was offering a medical transcription course >>>>>>>>> and I needed another, safer place to be. They kicked me out of >>>>>>>>> their dorm, making me homeless, after six weeks there. Rehab >>>>>>>>> flatly refused to support me and my music career in any way, and >>>>>>>>> pressured me to go to the Carroll Center in the first place, then >>>>>>>>> pressured me to get therapy and reform my ways when they made me >>>>>>>>> homeless. I only started cautiously learning how to deal with the >>>>>>>>> agencies in 2007, when it became clear that my failing hearing was >>>>>>>>> going to force me out of the transcription career I'd had for 13+ >>>>>>>>> years. I learned Jaws and Windows essentially by myself, as I've >>>>>>>>> always been good with tech. >>>>>>>>> Even now, while I may have learned a little about how to get along >>>>>>>>> with the agencies and get what I need, it's a very uneasy truce at >>>>>>>>> best./ I hope to be starting a job at another institution for the >>>>>>>>> blind soon, but this time as a trainer, not a student, which >>>>>>>>> hopefully will turn out better. You can see why I advocate for the >>>>>>>>> abolition of such systems. They do not foster independence of >>>>>>>>> thinking, and tend to punish outside-the-box people, in my >>>>>>>>> experience. I do realize that people blinded later in life may not >>>>>>>>> adapt as fully as those born blind; I'm learning that as I lose my >>>>>>>>> hearing, so I have the privilege of seeing both sides of the coin, >>>>>>>>> but think about what that >>>>>>>>> implies-- >>>>>>>>> that the pressure on those whose world has already been blasted by >>>>>>>>> losing their sight will essentially become putty in the hands of >>>>>>>>> high- >>>>>>>>> pressure agencies who are set in their ways. The system seems to >>>>>>>>> punish at both ends--if you're too independent, you're pressured to >>>>>>>>> conform; if you're new to blindness, you're taught not to think for >>>>>>>>> yourself. Hell, I didn't even do mobility orienting stuff until >>>>>>>>> last year, when Rehab here in CA suggested I ry it, and I decided, >>>>>>>>> in the interests of keeping the peace, what the heck; my mobility >>>>>>>>> teacher quickly realized that there was very little, beyond the >>>>>>>>> immediate rehearsing of directions, that she could improve upon >>>>>>>>> what I and my dog were already going. Since I got Trekker, that's >>>>>>>>> even more so; now that Trekker is temporarily broken, I truly feel >>>>>>>>> the loss. :) I don't see how the agencies really have done me any >>>>>>>>> good, other than in the purely material realm, and if I weren't as >>>>>>>>> articulate as I am about stating my needs, and as forceful as I am >>>>>>>>> about what I need, which most people are not, even that gain might >>>>>>>>> be minimal, and even now the damage is significant. So, that's >>>>>>>>> where my beef with the system(s) comes in; sorry if that makes it a >>>>>>>>> personal grudge, but there you are then. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mark BurningHawk Baxter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skype and Twitter: BurningHawk1969 >>>>>>>>> MSN: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> My home page: >>>>>>>>> http://MarkBurningHawk.net/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, 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