This issue is not so simple that one can just say MS has no interest in making Windows natively accessible. The issue has also been hashed out numerous times by now, and over many years. A lot of blind people would, and actually did, fight MS on this, asking them *not* to make a built-in screen reader on sufficient par with JAWS. The basic reason is that they would then naturally knock all the other solutions off the market before we, the blind users, had a chance to verify that MS would keep focus on accessibility, rather than dropping that focus and leaving us with absolutely nothing. Apple, with VoiceOver, had the distinct advantage of zero competition; so anything they did was better than the status quo. MS did not by any means have that luxury, and they still don't. What MS does have now is increased support for internal efforts toward a screen reader, caused I'm sure by VoiceOver's arrival for Apple. Time will tell where this takes us.
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 01:12:54PM -0700, Chris Snyder wrote: Daniel, It's because they don't want to step on the toes of Freedom Scientific, GW Micro, Serotek or any of the other third party software developers who make screen readers. That's why narrator is so bad. Microsoft has no interest in making Windows accessible themselves. That's one of the main reasons I became a Mac and IOS user. I will never again willingly pay the blind tax. Friendly, Chris -------------- I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one. On Dec 15, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: Hi, I wasnt talking about specific games, I was talking about the console itself. Since its running off of a windows-based kernel, I see no reason why they couldnt just make the underlying UI accessible with speech for navigation around the consoles menus. From: [1][email protected] [mailto:macvisionaries@googleg roups.com]On Behalf Of Mr. L. Alexander Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:05 PM To: [2][email protected] Subject: Re: Skype Accessibility exactly. trying to make an extremely GUI complex game accessible is too risky. OK add a screen reader protocol, then the millions of lines of code created to support it, then create a server for the screen reader to support itself and the game in question. then of course there's the detail of speech required. descriptions, actions, directions, etc. that in tandem with streaming data for both processes and graphical interfacing would require a higher processor, larger memory and in turn, higher spec components. Yes, I've always wanted to play the same games as others, but to be honest, I've not missed out. there's better things to do in life isn't there? living, falling in love, working, eating and everything else we are granted? lew On 15 Dec 2011, at 18:59, Missy Hoppe wrote: Agreed. While there are 1 or 2 modern video games I'd love to play: The Price is Right for example, I long ago accepted the fact that today's video games are simply too visual. It doesn't matter how accessible the console is if playing the game is all but impossible without vision. -----Original Message----- From: [3][email protected][4][mailto:macvisionaries@googl egroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 1:55 PM To: [5][email protected] Subject: Re: Skype Accessibility Hi, I think this is a bad example. I don't imagine the demand for accessibility by the blind is very high in regards to gaming consoles. I guess they could make the menus accessible for netflix and stuff like that though. But then you would have to throw in all television makers for discrimination as well. Its just ignorants. Discrimination in my opinion rings of something deliberate. Ricardo Walker [6][email protected] Twitter & Skype: rwalker296 [7]www.mobileaccess.org On Dec 15, 2011, at 12:12 PM, Daniel Miller wrote: Microgarbage already discriminates in the first place. I know this is off topic, but take the Xbox 360, for example. That's not accessible to all users, only those with vision. By that I mean the dashboard (which is where you make any system settings changes, etc) isn't accessible. From: [8][email protected] [9][mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mr. L. Alexander Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 11:09 AM To: [10][email protected] Subject: Re: Skype Accessibility if that were to be the case, that in itself is product exclusion and discrimination to users relying on the mac. lew On 15 Dec 2011, at 17:07, Chris Blouch wrote: I wonder what impact the new FCC notice of proposed rule making will have for accessibility in communications apps. Will any email or chat app have to be accessibly implemented on at least one platform? So if they make Skype work with Jaws on Windows does that mean they don't have to do anything for VO on OSX? CB On 12/15/11 5:58 AM, Mr. L. Alexander wrote: Even though we're a small group (thanks for highlighting my comment) we still have rights of equality and access. it's just a question of working in partnership with developers, even if it means becoming beta testers officially and having direct input. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to[11][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[12][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[13]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Mr. L. Alexander. Free Macs For The Blind. E-Mail: [14][email protected] Direct line: 07936 877500 Twitter: @macsfortheblind Free Macs For The blind is a charity project supplying older but working apple macs for blind and visually impaired people throughout the UK FOR FREE! Do you have an old unwanted mac, any hardware, software, old PC's, etc or a copy of outspoken 9.2 you would be willing to donate? please get in touch. Mac Access Dot Net; The British Mac Accessibility Network, we're here to help anybody disabled with anything Apple! [15]http://www.mac-access.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to[16][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[17][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[18]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to[19][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[20][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[21]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [22][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[23][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[24]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [25][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[26][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[27]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Mr. L. Alexander. Free Macs For The Blind. E-Mail: [28][email protected] Direct line: 07936 877500 Twitter: @macsfortheblind Free Macs For The blind is a charity project supplying older but working apple macs for blind and visually impaired people throughout the UK FOR FREE! Do you have an old unwanted mac, any hardware, software, old PC's, etc or a copy of outspoken 9.2 you would be willing to donate? please get in touch. Mac Access Dot Net; The British Mac Accessibility Network, we're here to help anybody disabled with anything Apple! [29]http://www.mac-access.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [30][email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to[31][email protected]. For more options, visit this group at[32]http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[mailto:[email protected]] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://www.mobileaccess.org/ 8. mailto:[email protected] 9. mailto:[mailto:[email protected]] 10. mailto:[email protected] 11. mailto:[email protected] 12. mailto:[email protected] 13. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 14. mailto:[email protected] 15. http://www.mac-access.net/ 16. mailto:[email protected] 17. mailto:[email protected] 18. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 19. mailto:[email protected] 20. mailto:[email protected] 21. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 22. mailto:[email protected] 23. mailto:[email protected] 24. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 25. mailto:[email protected] 26. mailto:[email protected] 27. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 28. mailto:[email protected] 29. http://www.mac-access.net/ 30. mailto:[email protected] 31. mailto:[email protected] 32. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en 33. mailto:[email protected] 34. mailto:[email protected] 35. http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -- Doug Lee [email protected] http://www.dlee.org SSB BART Group [email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "If you refuse to be made straight when you are green, you will not be made straight when you are dry." {African} -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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