At 4:10 AM -0500 2005-11-17, Kevin McCann wrote:
> A design that supports independent functionality *and* integration is a
> Good Thing. It's how a lot of software works.
There are cases where this is possible, and cases where it is
not. The Unix philosophy of tying a multitude of tiny little tools
together with pipes doesn't work for everything.
Show me examples of stand-alone tools that are intended to be
part of a complete community collaboration system, but which are also
fully functional on their own.
I'm sorry. This is a case where you have to own all the pieces
to the puzzle yourself before you can have a reasonable hope of being
able to make them all fit together.
Or did you think that you could just take arbitrary pieces from a
dozen random puzzles and they'd all magically work together and
create a beautiful picture?
> But if it
> can integrate easily with a collab tool that offers most of the other
> desired functionality, then that's a good step in the right direction.
> So what exactly is wrong with that premise?
That you'd get that utopia for free? That you could simply
continue to badger and browbeat us until we provided it for you, for
free?
> If that puts me in a
> different universe, well, I have a lot of company out here.
Yeah, on the badgering front, you certainly have a lot of company
there. Not that this is a good thing, however.
>> Mailman will move towards greater integration with database tools,
>> yes. But it is not now, nor will it ever be, the be-all and end-all
>> of community collaboration tools.
>
> Your first sentence above: that is all I'm looking for!
Not according to everything else you've said. Among other
things, greater integration with database tools says nothing for
sharing the database schema designs with other projects. Nor does it
say anything for sharing the supported database packages with other
projects -- maybe we'd like MySQL and they'd like PostgreSQL. And
that's just the tip of the ice shelf.
Or did you expect that just because you get everyone in the UN to
speak English (or at least understand it through an interpreter),
that they would automatically agree on everything and work together
towards the same set of goals?
I think you're expecting a level of integration here that cannot
possibly be provided by any one project, unless they own all the
various pieces to their puzzle.
> I don't want or
> expect MM to be a be-all and end-all tool! I want it to be able to be
> PART of a very good solution. I hope to see that in MM3. Why can't you
> understand that?
Why can't you understand that you're speaking out of both sides
of your mouth at the same time, and saying different things?
> Once again, paying money for Barry (and others) to do work on MM3 is
> precisely what I tried to arrange. Availability was always the main issue.
Pay them enough money, and I'm sure that they'll solve the
availability problem. But you'll have to guarantee them the payment
-- they're not going to quit their day jobs just because you claim to
have ten million dollars in a vault.
> What the? I really don't understand your hostility. And you haven't read
> a word I've written have you? Understand this: I have put A LOT of time
> and effort into trying to move MM3 develoment forward through funding.
> These are ACTIONS, whether you recognize it or not.
I don't see any action there. I see failure to act, sure. Claim
of action, sure. Possibility of attempted action, maybe. If so,
then there was certainly a failure to complete the action --
regardless of who you try to blame that on.
> Brad, try treating people a) like you would have them treat you,
I might do that, if you would have done the same. Instead, you
post your diatribe and expect all problems to be solved for you.
I'm sorry. I'm not going to react well to that kind of
treatment, and I doubt anyone else is, either.
> and b) as if they were in the same room as you.
Again, Physician -- heal thyself. Once you've done that, maybe
others will follow suit.
> You know, I'm reminded by all of this that no good deed goes unpunished.
Yup, you're certainly providing lots of punishment here. We must
have done lots of good deeds.
> I did a lot of lobbying for MM3 development funding. It didn't work out
> because of Barry's schedule, but Lord knows I put in the effort.
I've put in lots of effort on lots of projects, some of which was
successful and some of which wasn't.
But I don't recall ever posting a diatribe of the sort you did,
and then expect everyone else to kowtow to my wishes, cater to my
every desire, and magically solve all my problems.
--
Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
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