The contrast between Aeneas' killing of Turnus with his killing of Magnus,
Tarquinus and Lucagus is, I think, a very good point. But I don't know
whether it's right to say that Aeneas displays pietas in just thinking
about sparing Turnus. I would put it as Aeneas being on the point of
displaying "pietas" (whatever that means) or "clementia" or, better,
sparing those laid low ("parcere subiectis" Bk 6), but, for whatever
reason, not doing this. And I think that the reason for not doing this is
more likely to be irrational (i.e. approximately "furor").
I think it's very instructive to contrast this episode with, on the one
hand, Neoptolemus and Priam in Bk II (Aeneas emerges better), but, on the
other hand, Achilles and Priam in Bk XXIV of the Iliad. I think the latter
comparison particularly interesting as Aeneas is constantly held out by
Vergil as being a more "civilised" hero than Achilles, yet in the Iliad we
get a v. humane reconciliation. Message: civilization (in sense of "impe
rium") and humanity (in sense of "humaneness") are not coextensive?
Adrian Pay
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-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Dever [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
However, Aeneas must defeat Turnus if he is to marry Lavinia and
found Rome. Here he shows pietas to the will of the gods and to
future Rome. Evander instructed him to avenge his son's death, this
is what he does when he kills Turnus. Don't you think that his
hesitation before killing Turnus says something about his humanity?
Turnus calls on Aeneas' pietas in mentioning his father. His vain
hopes that he will be spared are not answered though. The pietas
Aeneas has towards Evander, Pallas (a near father/son relationship)
and towards future Rome is greater than the sympathy he has towards a
fallen hero.
We have to remember that our idea of destruction of a foe on the
battlefield, and concepts of revenge are probably very different to
those of the ancients. I think that Aeneas expresses pietas in just
thinking about sparing Turnus, where else in the epic does he do
this- certainly not in Book 10 when he is begged by numerous men to
spare their lives (Magnus, Tarquinus, Lucagus...). The love he felt
towards Pallas and the debt he felt he owed to Evander is evident in
his slaying of Turnus.
>From: Catherine H Tate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:08:13 -0400
>
>Aeneas becomes "DUX" at the end of the Aenead. He is definitely no
longer
>"pius" or "pietas" (which ever) if for some reason you think that he
is
>then pius near the end Aeneas is no longer a `how would you say a
>fledgling' he is a `dux' pietas matters no more the objective must
happen
> and as a man I suppose he does what "HE" feels should be done , but
under
>no reasoning can he be "pietas" or "pius"! Thats how I see it in a
very
>short discussion.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sarah Dever [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 5:19 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
>
>Possibly the idea of the second half of the Aenied being described as
>Vergil's 'greater labour' is to do with the struggle of Aeneas in
>fighting the violence and anger (furor)of others with his
>strengthened pietas. Before his visit to the underworld in Book 6,
>Aeneas was unable to look forward clearly, he was too concerned with
>founding a 'New Troy'. He is given insight into a prosperous Roman
>future and emerges more confident and mature. In books 1-6 Aeneas has
>to battle with his pietas, which he is famed for and the furor which
>is brewing within himself. Despair and confusion often trigger
>outbursts of furor, but after the revelations in Hades Aeneas becomes
>more rational.
>The task for Aeneas in books 7-12 is to use his strengthened pietas
>against the furor of others on the battlefield. This is the ultimate
>test, if he can emerge as the victor then it is a truly a heroic
>achievement.
>
>What do others think of this point I have raised? Are Aeneas' actions
>at the end of the epic fit to be called pious? Is his killing of
>Turnus justified, and if so what does this say about pietas?
>I would appreciate any responses, as I find this topic of great
>interst.
> Sarah.
>
>>From: "Jessica Latimer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: VIRGIL: virgil
>>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:01:23 -0400
>>
>>I heard an interesting quote where Vergil describes the second half
>of the Aeneid as his "greater labor". I don't suppose by this he
>means that it is better than the first half, but then I wonder what
>exactly he does mean. Personally, I enjoyed the first half more, as
>I am more of a romantic. As well, the first half is when the
>character of Aeneis really forms. For the same reason, I enjoyed the
>Odyssey more than I did the Aeneid; however, Virgil is said to have
>believed that the Aeneid was greater than the Odyssey. Perhaps, it
>is the theme that is greater, as the theme of heroic warfare is more
>noble than that of homecoming. Could this be said to be the same
>with differing themes of the Aeneid? I would be very curious to hear
>what someone else has to say about this "greater labor" business.
>>
>
>
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